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  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 736Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    A jaguar lying in wait.... and not being able to kill me with you and a magi wailing on me for a minute straight. 
    LOL.. I meant before I came back and didn't know what any of the new stuff did.

  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 736Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 17
    Cooper said:
    Caelan said:
    Proficy said:
    And veil is needed... wanted and used artefact... get with it. Crying about it isnt going to change it. Its not a game changing mechanic. Just QoL, i dont see how you people can complain about that but dont have problems with like a crit pendant. Where your paying to make gold exp faster or the harvesting extracting gloves. Where your paying to make more of something. (Love those artes, just using them as an example).
    Point is. All veil does is make it so you cant sense the person. You can still track, portal, and other things to them..There are alot worse things out and about than someone not wanting to be found.
    Agreed.  I got mine because I wanted to "play" a hunter.  The point of hunting is to be hidden.  I very much used to stalk my 'prey' in game.  Having them not be able to "Farsee Caelan;lol go the other way" was pretty key for a jaguar lying in wait for the person they are hunting to walk by.  I also learned to enjoy that not everyone could keep track of me with things like Dontarion's WHOLIST tracker.
    I mean...the stuff you used to do to people literally made handfuls of people quit playing the game permanently - that is the worst veil defense I've seen posted.

    For those who weren't around, imagine this: 

    Average health in the game at this point is 3k, if you had 3.8k health people were like "holy crap how do you have so much?!".

    Caelan was artied out at this point as a Sentinel with a Lupine pre reflexes nerf and when Raja had level 2 balance regain. He would trap up the area and clouds with traps using hide and his veil while you were hunting. Then use his reflex bow to shoot off 2-3 meteors in about 2 seconds, then start shooting you. The arrows came at a little less than a second balance.  If you tried to run you hit traps and died. If you shielded you just died. If you had wings you would hit traps there and die.

    Or he would trap up and use his perma stun axethrow on you while you bashed and you'd die.

    Or he'd sit on clouds with traps around all the clouds exits and when you hit alertness and his traps he'd just axe you to death. 

    If you managed to get him to actual fight it was usually 3-4 mauls before you died.

    It was not fun and he would do this all day to you, making it so you either logged off for the day or you died 20 times. 

    Not fun! Thankfully every single thing he used to do is not possible anymore! 

    LOL "if you could get him to fight"..  LOL!!

    I usually only reserved shit like that for when people were being asses and/or ganking/trying to gank me because I prefer 1v1 (or in city defense).  Otherwise it was usually a couple noose traps to afford me some time to move/prep.

    Let's not forget that I was also more than willing to fight 1v1 with no arties at that time too (save the axe/spear because that was how Sentinels fought).   I managed to beat Rameus at his peak with no arties (and even refilled a health vial in the middle of the fight) and tore Cypra a new one a few times with no arties when she was the bee's knees.  I think the only people I had trouble with back then was Wulfen and Manu.  I still killed Manu once though, and it was glorious :D

    I was also the only Sentinel I know of to regularly behead people.  Or to use anything but the "maul prep" tactics.  In fact, I worked with @Batista to intentionally expand it and used a tactic very similar to Infernal Vivisect.  I also managed to implement the occasional freeze/pound and a lot of other tactics.

    And meteor was closer to one every 2 seconds with Lupine.  But I get it, it seemed faster.

    And I killed people after the nerf to handaxe as well.

    Saying I was the only one artied out who used "cheap" tactics is so damn laughable, man.  Monk/Infernal teams rolling around?? 

    It's ok though, because now I'm fodder.  Everything has changed.  Half the arties are inconsequential, new skills, abilities, shitty healing for now... etc


    edit:  Meh.. Forums messed up my account.  Sorry for the reply days later. Now the conversation has progressed (but no, I won't delete my counter argument)

  • AegothAegoth Posts: 2,165Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I still have that chicken wing you NEVER FUCKING ATE. It's waiting for your mouth :|
    Morthif
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,259Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Whatever happened to hate the game, not the player?
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 736Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    I still have that chicken wing you NEVER FUCKING ATE. It's waiting for your mouth :|
    Oh! Put it in the fridge. I'll eat it later!

  • SynbiosSynbios Posts: 4,437Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    Whatever happened to hate the game, not the player?
    The rapid technologization of the world has blurred the lines between man, machine, and software. As software in machines generates avatars symbolizing their meatspace human users, these users have begun to consider themselves and their avatars as one and the same. Since avatars are constructs of the software - in this case, the game of Achaea - little distinction can be made between avatar and 'game-world'. And since my superior data models show an approaching singularity of man-machine-code, I can conclude with 83.452352113% certainty(with a 4% standard deviation) that 'hate the game, not the player' is no longer relevant in this epoch of humanity, as the player and the game are one and the same, now coexisting in a triune-like unity of hate and madness.

    All hail the Singularity.

  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 736Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I am technically about 33% machine anyway so... yeah

    Jonathin
  • HaloshireHaloshire Posts: 31Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Whoo milk!
  • KafzielKafziel Posts: 658Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 20
    Jovolo said:

    The difference is the vastly improved defence of the people outputting damage/afflictions enhanced by artefacts. You used to be able to fight on par with those people because they were easier to kill, it was a more fun game of chicken. Now it's much more a numbers game because everyone is so optimised. The players are just better all around, too.

    Trapped in quote box fuck mobile forums.

    If I had it, I'd post the log of horkval magi Dyzanru tanking three dragon monks here.

    Edit: or maybe it was Dumah? Some d name Mhaldorian
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 20
    I thought that log was dex bard? I remember coops was in it. Horkie was busted. I was talking about curing syetems anyways
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,098Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Def stacking used to be incredibly broken, and was something I took advantage of as frequently as possible.

    I didn't have arties back in those days, but I could tank 7-8 people DSLing/looping disembowel indefinitely, 30+ guards, DKs without ever sipping, and most anything else that did cutting or blunt damage did negligible damage. My mind is still stuck in those days sometimes - I get upset that I can't tank two people for more than 10 seconds now. Back in the day I could do 5-6 and escape most of the time.

    Caelan
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also, just noticed that I can no longer access the forums from the old website. No :( 
  • KoganKogan Posts: 317Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jovolo said:
    Also, just noticed that I can no longer access the forums from the old website. No :( 
    Yeah, pretty much have to search the link via google then click the drop down before clicking cached. It won't be pretty, but it will allow you to view most of the posts.


    KryptonUtianima
  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 362Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Bumped. Let's hear your thoughts this time!
  • DominiusDominius Posts: 56Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I classlead suicidemice and timers on bombs. Pranks needs some tweeking to be cool again.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,259Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 25
    Ahh, Mayology classleads are hilarious. "Mayology is a great idea, except everything that makes it what it is, is infact, a bad idea." Forced embrace upon death. Remove all aspects of control from an affliction-centered class which has a huge pool of affs to draw from.

    I don't know why people try to bother hiding "delete ships" classleads behind walls of text that just serve to neuter any impact an ability has. That, and people forget that hangedman and other immediate hinders (shadowstrike, etc) exist and are extremely effective at delaying time-critical things. Or someone with a wand uses it and plaughs at the person spamming mayo temper/educe at him. Mayo's one of those Pyrrhic victory things where even if you win, you sort of lose. A bit like the alablaster urn, except truedeath makes that totally unusable.

    One of the suggestions to append extra visibility to the Alchemist while mayo'd up is a good idea, though. Like that one a lot. Maybe a room look and some horrifying hulk-slathering dribble stuff.


  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 550Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Classlead 29.
    I get why it exists and I'd agree with it if all of those rites didn't disappear when the devotionist dies and it didn't take almost half a minute to set those all up, making you effectively useless in any fight until you're done, which at that point you've likely already been targeted.

    Classlead 44.
    I support option 3.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Xaden
  • AlrenaAlrena Posts: 559Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Daeir said:
    Ahh, Mayology classleads are hilarious. "Mayology is a great idea, except everything that makes it what it is, is infact, a bad idea." Forced embrace upon death. Remove all aspects of control from an affliction-centered class which has a huge pool of affs to draw from.

    I don't know why people try to bother hiding "delete ships" classleads behind walls of text that just serve to neuter any impact an ability has. That, and people forget that hangedman and other immediate hinders (shadowstrike, etc) exist and are extremely effective at delaying time-critical things. Or someone with a wand uses it and plaughs at the person spamming mayo temper/educe at him. Mayo's one of those Pyrrhic victory things where even if you win, you sort of lose. A bit like the alablaster urn, except truedeath makes that totally unusable.

    One of the suggestions to append extra visibility to the Alchemist while mayo'd up is a good idea, though. Like that one a lot. Maybe a room look and some horrifying hulk-slathering dribble stuff.


    To be fair, hangedman and shadowstrike hinder for maybe 2-5 seconds. That's not very long in the frame of things. Shadowstrike is also not immediate, as it has a delay of 4 seconds. If you use a wand, the alchemist can switch targets. I'm not really sure anyone would call a single starburst death a Pyrrhic victory compared to single-handedly wiping out an entire group. I'm still in favour of a meaningful cooldown, or some form of mitigation that makes it more risky to use in group combat.
    image
    Hataru
  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 244Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aralaya said:
    Classlead 29.
    I get why it exists and I'd agree with it if all of those rites didn't disappear when the devotionist dies and it didn't take almost half a minute to set those all up, making you effectively useless in any fight until you're done, which at that point you've likely already been targeted.

    Classlead 44.
    I support option 3.
    I think the point is that you can take that half a minute out of combat to set up and then call the rites when you are fighting (correct me if I am wrong). Also shrine warfare has come down to setting up the room before you dust the shrine. So most of the time you already have rites set up and rooms fully prepped. I like the rites disappearing when the devotionist dies. That devotionist needs to learn to leave the room or disengage. Their rites still stay if they leave (deliver, pilg, earrings, dunathar, burrow, tumble, leap, fly) .

    I am biased but I like the idea of desecration being able to remove all rites on a channel or a long balance recovery per rite removed. I think necromancy getting all those rites is a bit of a stretch. 
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,193Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can't summon rites, so you have to set them up in the room you want to use them in, and if the fight moves you have to lay new rites (with the associated costs). If you know ahead of time where the fight is going to happen, you can set up rites, which essentially means they're only truly effective when you get to dictate the location of the fight (i.e. they're primarily defensive, but have serious drawbacks when you're attacking). You can leave the room or disengage to avoid losing the rites to dying, but you're then taking an entire person out of the fight for the benefit of rites. That's not a worthwhile trade by any means; rites don't deal enough damage, restore enough health or heal afflictions fast enough to make up the difference of an entire person attacking to a group fight. I would be extremely annoyed if somebody said "I'm going to sit this fight out so that you guys have the benefit of rites.", especially considering the non-factional replacements for Piety that are available these days.

    Suggesting that Necromancy doesn't have any factional advantages over Devotion is absurd, but that's pretty much what I expect from 99% of classleads. Rites are powerful, but limited, and every other faction has other advantages (many of which are - at least situationally - stronger). Could the mechanics of Desecration be improved? Possibly. But when your request is "We should have everything they have, plus everything we currently have that they don't." the response is unlikely to be positive.
    FarrahAchillesXias
  • SalisaSalisa Posts: 36Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Submitted by: Anonymous      Status      : Unsubmitted
    Skill       : Shadowmancy    Ability     : Reap
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Problem:
    This class utilizes two weapons in a momentum fashion with amazing afflicting potential at a very competative speed rate compared to other classes in achaea, while still being able to produce a very competitive damage output with these afflictions. The problem lies that it makes no sense to have such reliable versatility on the lower end an still have the capabilities it has on the higher end. What is meant by the previous statement is that being able to consistently produce good damage at the initiating attacks and then end up with devistating damage on the momentum gaining portion of it, without having any sort of hindering restrictions applied to it like every other class seems a bit much.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Don't let them build momentum then? Not sure I understand the issue here.


  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 244Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Daeir said:
    Ahh, Mayology classleads are hilarious. "Mayology is a great idea, except everything that makes it what it is, is infact, a bad idea." Forced embrace upon death. Remove all aspects of control from an affliction-centered class which has a huge pool of affs to draw from.

    I don't know why people try to bother hiding "delete ships" classleads behind walls of text that just serve to neuter any impact an ability has. That, and people forget that hangedman and other immediate hinders (shadowstrike, etc) exist and are extremely effective at delaying time-critical things. Or someone with a wand uses it and plaughs at the person spamming mayo temper/educe at him. Mayo's one of those Pyrrhic victory things where even if you win, you sort of lose. A bit like the alablaster urn, except truedeath makes that totally unusable.

    One of the suggestions to append extra visibility to the Alchemist while mayo'd up is a good idea, though. Like that one a lot. Maybe a room look and some horrifying hulk-slathering dribble stuff.


    In the capable hands of good combatants not including Top Tier Fighters: Farrah, Rom, Seragorn, Proficy,etc ,etc this skill allows them to become God-like and that is one of the problems. If Mhaldor leaves a person like Farrah alone and targets someone else. Farrah's momentum with mayo will lead to the wipe of the whole Mhaldorian team.
    Scenario: Fighting Targ
    Farrah activates Mayo
    You kill her once\burst\touch starburst inked on body\leaves room to redef  (1 death)
    Activates mayo again|Now she starts to shoot your people with a L3 bow. 
    You kill her again\burst\shake flask\leave   (2 deaths)
    Activates mayo again
    Kill her\burst\she leaves room\ redef\ activate mayo again (3 deaths)
    kill her\ she gems\ redef \activate mayo again (4 deaths)
    kill her\ shaman rezzes\ redef\activate mayo again (5 deaths)
    kill her\ devotionist rezzes\redef\activate mayo again (6 deaths)
    kill her\ self alchie rezz\ redef\ activate mayo again ( 7 deaths)
    kill her\ 10 minute gem cooldown up\gem\redef\activate mayo again (8 deaths)
    kill her\ shaman or devotionist rezzes\redef\ etc etc etc.

    I remember one fight we/guards killed farrah 12 times in a 5 minute fight. That is bonkers combined with the fact that each mayo activation she is bound to kill people very quickly, especially people without health arties.

    The skill IS a terrible idea and needs to be re-worked. To my limited knowledge only demon fury allows this kind of advantage over a long period of time (without the demons or person dying). 

    Dochitha
  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 244Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Antonius said:
    You can't summon rites, so you have to set them up in the room you want to use them in, and if the fight moves you have to lay new rites (with the associated costs). If you know ahead of time where the fight is going to happen, you can set up rites, which essentially means they're only truly effective when you get to dictate the location of the fight (i.e. they're primarily defensive, but have serious drawbacks when you're attacking). You can leave the room or disengage to avoid losing the rites to dying, but you're then taking an entire person out of the fight for the benefit of rites. That's not a worthwhile trade by any means; rites don't deal enough damage, restore enough health or heal afflictions fast enough to make up the difference of an entire person attacking to a group fight. I would be extremely annoyed if somebody said "I'm going to sit this fight out so that you guys have the benefit of rites.", especially considering the non-factional replacements for Piety that are available these days.

    Suggesting that Necromancy doesn't have any factional advantages over Devotion is absurd, but that's pretty much what I expect from 99% of classleads. Rites are powerful, but limited, and every other faction has other advantages (many of which are - at least situationally - stronger). Could the mechanics of Desecration be improved? Possibly. But when your request is "We should have everything they have, plus everything we currently have that they don't." the response is unlikely to be positive.
    Thanks for adding your knowledge! I never played a devotion user. I thought fevour?? lets you do a call harmonics or vibes function. I get what you are saying. In my recent experience with Targ, you guys usually already outnumber Mhaldor by a fair amount ( You guys multiple like cockroaches!). One Targ person who doesn't do combat could pre-set up rites defensively and that can mean the difference between losing and winning, especially well placed piety and all-sight rites. Piety in rooms adjacent and two rooms out to the one you are in hinders or stops a lot of rush tactics and reduces the effectiveness of LoS. Unfortunately, I can't think of any factional advantages that Necromancy provides that Devotion couldn't... I agree with you that the request is not well thought out.
  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 244Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Salisa said:
    Submitted by: Anonymous      Status      : Unsubmitted
    Skill       : Shadowmancy    Ability     : Reap
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Problem:
    This class utilizes two weapons in a momentum fashion with amazing afflicting potential at a very competative speed rate compared to other classes in achaea, while still being able to produce a very competitive damage output with these afflictions. The problem lies that it makes no sense to have such reliable versatility on the lower end an still have the capabilities it has on the higher end. What is meant by the previous statement is that being able to consistently produce good damage at the initiating attacks and then end up with devistating damage on the momentum gaining portion of it, without having any sort of hindering restrictions applied to it like every other class seems a bit much.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Don't let them build momentum then? Not sure I understand the issue here.


    I think the issue is and always will be why isn't this class hindered by rebounding? It is extremely difficult to run away from a DW that knows their skills. That is what I am reading...
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,193Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Leviticus said:
    Antonius said:
    You can't summon rites, so you have to set them up in the room you want to use them in, and if the fight moves you have to lay new rites (with the associated costs). If you know ahead of time where the fight is going to happen, you can set up rites, which essentially means they're only truly effective when you get to dictate the location of the fight (i.e. they're primarily defensive, but have serious drawbacks when you're attacking). You can leave the room or disengage to avoid losing the rites to dying, but you're then taking an entire person out of the fight for the benefit of rites. That's not a worthwhile trade by any means; rites don't deal enough damage, restore enough health or heal afflictions fast enough to make up the difference of an entire person attacking to a group fight. I would be extremely annoyed if somebody said "I'm going to sit this fight out so that you guys have the benefit of rites.", especially considering the non-factional replacements for Piety that are available these days.

    Suggesting that Necromancy doesn't have any factional advantages over Devotion is absurd, but that's pretty much what I expect from 99% of classleads. Rites are powerful, but limited, and every other faction has other advantages (many of which are - at least situationally - stronger). Could the mechanics of Desecration be improved? Possibly. But when your request is "We should have everything they have, plus everything we currently have that they don't." the response is unlikely to be positive.
    Thanks for adding your knowledge! I never played a devotion user. I thought fevour?? lets you do a call harmonics or vibes function. I get what you are saying. In my recent experience with Targ, you guys usually already outnumber Mhaldor by a fair amount ( You guys multiple like cockroaches!). One Targ person who doesn't do combat could pre-set up rites defensively and that can mean the difference between losing and winning, especially well placed piety and all-sight rites. Piety in rooms adjacent and two rooms out to the one you are in hinders or stops a lot of rush tactics and reduces the effectiveness of LoS. Unfortunately, I can't think of any factional advantages that Necromancy provides that Devotion couldn't... I agree with you that the request is not well thought out.

    Fervour allows you to lay certain rites (notably not Piety or Revitalisation) when off-balance from the primary attacks of the Weaponmastery specialisations (doubleslash, doublewhirl, combination, two-handed attacks). It's definitely not allowing you to summon rites. It also happens to be Paladin only.

    As far as advantages that Necromancy has:

    The infiltration ability of blackwind is an obvious one.

    Gravehands is room hinder equivalent in effectiveness to Piety, but doesn't require you to enemy anybody to hinder non-Mhaldorians. In a lot of fights that may not become relevant, but in really large scale events (e.g. CTF) or fights where you might not notice new people entering to enemy them, that is an advantage. Add to that the fact that you can't tell who they belong to, they don't fade on death, and they can be delivered at range via soulspear (which also does a decent amount of damage).

    Soulcage.

    Vivisect.

    Lifevision.

    Vengeance.

    Vigour is slightly worse healing than Hands, but has fewer things that prevents it and allows padding above 100% of maximum health to survive particularly damaging hits.


    DochithaFarrahAchillesHalos
  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,243Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I would 100% trade devotion for necromancy for the entire month of april (or October!) to let you guys see the differences.

    Rites aren't all they're cracked up to be in a group fight scenario, due to the fact that they don't persist whenever someone smacks the devotionist who has the rites up dead.  While gravehands persist through death and, on your death, you fucking explode dealing 33% damage to everyone, regardless of your health.  (Which can be tied with crucible for even more damage, etc).

    If you want Necromancy to get all the shit devotion gets, give us the stuff from necromancy in devotionist.  I'd 100% learn to play a priest then.  <3
    Xias
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,073Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As an aside; Nowadays we don't really ever set up piety outside the room we want to fight in because we actually want to fight. Wading through five rooms of hands just to engage, while getting soulspeared in the process... Is not fun :(
    Xias
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,045Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Piety is the only rite I care about. The rest are very near worthless, imo.

    Would absolutely trade Devo for Necro, Devo is without question the weaker of the two.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Xias
  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 550Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Agreeing with the above. Gimme necromancy.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Xias
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