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All 1v1 fights are fair.

DevranDevran Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited October 2016 in The Matsuhama Arena
Rather than derail the 'The Revelation' thread, I pulled this quote from @Proficy and thought I'd start a new thread. Not sure why. Something about it just resonated with me and I felt compelled to talk about it. Here's what he said: 

"You dont learn to pk in 10 on 3 fights....all the bigger force does is mash there bashing alias.. you learn by practicing 1 on 1 or fair fights is my point @atalkez .... 
Which is why when they get into a fair fight afterwards you hear the complaints....
And yes any 1 on 1 fight is fair dont want to hear that "artefact whore" arguement... im always willing and wanting to fight anyone no artes "

Most of us have been playing IRE games for years and even if you're not a 'combatant' you're going to have at least some experience in PKing during that time. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people say things like "Oh don't fight so-and-so, he's a walking artifact shop." Or "You can't fight against such-and-such because he's just too good and too knowledgeable at fighting."

This attitude annoys the hell out of me. I will be the first to admit that my knowledge of combat isn't based on Achaea and while there are similarities, it's just general knowledge type stuff. But my god, I feel like if you have a problem with someone to the point where you want to call them a flacced pelvis attachment and then murder their face just a bit you should at least be willing to back that up with a bit of 1v1 violence. Taking @Proficy as an example, he said he's willing to fight without artifacts and even if his knowledge of combat outweighs your own, if things are at the point where you want to kill him, just go in and try. Don't bring a ganksquad. Don't try some crappy underhanded tactics. Just get in there and do it. You'll probably learn something and emerge better off.

Or y'know.. Don't pick fights with strong people. Don't let yourself get into a situation where combat is the answer. Contain yourself. Hakuna your tatas. Whatever. *throws hands in the air*

Am I right? Am I unreasonable? Reply and tell me.


*Disclaimer: Was only using Proficy as an example here. There isn't, as far as I know, some kind of situation where this is going on with them right now.
Aegoth
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Comments

  • LylithLylith Member Posts: 28 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Arena.
  • DevranDevran Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Lylith said:
    Arena.
    Doesn't feel real. Arena for practice, sure. 
  • LylithLylith Member Posts: 28 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    And hoping others will come and fight you alone because of xyz reason is more real? Sure it does happen and sure there's also agreed upon duels. But, at the end of the day, unless that's the kind of character you're playing you're under no obligation to stay around and fight someone who jumps you, even one vs one. And in reverse, you're under no obligation not to bring your friends to jump someone stronger or to ensure it's harder for them to escape. Isn't that more real?

    Don't get me wrong, I think one vs one is a lot of fun! I just don't think it's something you should expect to happen as you mentioned it.
  • DevranDevran Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    You both raise valid points - those being about people who don't want 1v1 or don't play the game for that aspect of it.

    However, I'm talking about the people who DO 1v1 and want to be 'known' as a good fighter, but deliberately avoid people because of their artifacts or skill level but still want to run their mouth and be a 'big dog'. I'm sure everyone knows at least one person like that.
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2016
    Fairness is subjective in this case, I think.
    Devran said:
    However, I'm talking about the people who DO 1v1 and want to be 'known' as a good fighter, but deliberately avoid people because of their artifacts or skill level but still want to run their mouth and be a 'big dog'. I'm sure everyone knows at least one person like that.
    From my experience, people like this don't wanna actually learn to fight. They wanna learn to be able to beat people who're crap at fighting. Especially since there's a number of people who will remove their artifacts if the other person REALLY wants to fight.

    Arena also negates a number of fun strategies, so that's a kinda silly point to make.

  • DevranDevran Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Cynlael said:
    Fairness is subjective in this case, I think.
    Devran said:
    However, I'm talking about the people who DO 1v1 and want to be 'known' as a good fighter, but deliberately avoid people because of their artifacts or skill level but still want to run their mouth and be a 'big dog'. I'm sure everyone knows at least one person like that.
    From my experience, people like this don't wanna actually learn to fight. They wanna learn to be able to beat people who're crap at fighting. Especially since there's a number of people who will remove their artifacts if the other person REALLY wants to fight.

    Arena also negates a number of fun strategies, so that's a kinda silly point to make.
    I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment here. Strongly agree.
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    An unreasonable person is an unreasonable person.

    That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding a fight with someone who won't make it fun. It's a game, after all. It can be very frustrating to fight someone much more artied than you, or with an annoying class (Jester :(), and unless I had a very good reason to go after someone whom I know fights cheesy and boring, I'd probably go out of my way to avoid a fight with that person, truth be told. No shame there, I feel. 
  • NazihkNazihk Member Posts: 423 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Cynlael said:
    Especially since there's a number of people who will remove their artifacts if the other person REALLY wants to fight.
    Man, fuck that noise. I didn't get 20k credits worth of artifacts so that they can sit there and cheer me on from the sidelines.
    Atalkez
  • DevranDevran Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Anedhel said:
    An unreasonable person is an unreasonable person.

    That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding a fight with someone who won't make it fun. It's a game, after all. It can be very frustrating to fight someone much more artied than you, or with an annoying class (Jester :(), and unless I had a very good reason to go after someone whom I know fights cheesy and boring, I'd probably go out of my way to avoid a fight with that person, truth be told. No shame there, I feel. 
    I feel that this is entirely reasonable. Yes, if you don't want to fight someone you can avoid it. Of course. The problem for me though arises when someone continually avoids someone, but also runs their mouth while refusing to engage.

    In those situations I feel like it's entirely reasonable to jump them and smash them to gibblets however you can. 
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2016
    Devran said:
    The problem for me though arises when someone continually avoids someone, but also runs their mouth while refusing to engage.
    See previous comment. :D - I remember someone like this in Lusternia, when him and one of his dipshit buddies were constantly trashtalking enemies over CT, and only ever fighting when it was like 10v2. Asked him if he'd be the same way, if I were to boot him from the city so he had no place to hide from them. Shut him right up.
    Nazihk said:
    Man, fuck that noise. I didn't get 20k credits worth of artifacts so that they can sit there and cheer me on from the sidelines.
    Just saying there are some who will. I know Proficy (as he mentioned) will do it, if he's desperate to fight you for a contract, for example. Not completing contract = he loses standing with the Mark. If artifacts are what keeps your victim from ever coming anywhere remotely close to your vicinity, it's a pretty easy compromise to make. Especially if you can beat them even without the artifacts.

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,491 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Always fun fighting without arties. You take that shit for granted.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Anedhel
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,113 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Always fun fighting without arties. You take that shit for granted.
    Eh. I mean, if I devoted the time to bashing up gold for credits for arties, I'd want to actually be able to enjoy those spoils. Just opening a wallet feels different, admittedly.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - (OOC Clan): Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."



  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That wasn't the argument.

  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,832 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarathai said:
    Atalkez said:
    Always fun fighting without arties. You take that shit for granted.
    Eh. I mean, if I devoted the time to bashing up gold for credits for arties, I'd want to actually be able to enjoy those spoils. Just opening a wallet feels different, admittedly.
    Doesn't feel any different to me, personally. My real life job is considerably more - and harder - work than bashing, after all.
    ZulahSirrion
  • KorbenKorben Member Posts: 345 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Group combat and 1v1 combat are two different activities, as I posted about in the other thread. I did enough group combat in the old days to the point I started to almost maybe like it, even though my side lost 90% of the time. It didn't make me like 1v1 any bit more.

    On to the second point: getting to where you can make a credible showing against the weakest combatant is a pretty big investment. I don't mean credits, I mean the time to figure out what your abilities actually do and how to use them (the AB files for them are terrible), and then what your opponent's abilities do and how to defend against them. If you enjoy some other aspect of the game, this is all time taken away from that other aspect before you get to the point where you might get some enjoyment from the new activity.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,491 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The ABS have gotten a lot better.

    Typo something you see wrong, they're (generally) quick on those fixes!


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Korben
  • OmorOmor Member Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    My issue with AB files is usually lack of information, not blatantly wrong information.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
    Korben
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,832 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Some of them - particularly the older ones - can be pretty vague about the effects, or use terminology that requires you to be familiar with other things already. The newer AB files tend to be a lot better in terms of providing information in an easy to understand manner about what the ability actually does.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 973 @ - Epic Achaean
    Devran said:
    Anedhel said:
    An unreasonable person is an unreasonable person.

    That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding a fight with someone who won't make it fun. It's a game, after all. It can be very frustrating to fight someone much more artied than you, or with an annoying class (Jester :(), and unless I had a very good reason to go after someone whom I know fights cheesy and boring, I'd probably go out of my way to avoid a fight with that person, truth be told. No shame there, I feel. 
    I feel that this is entirely reasonable. Yes, if you don't want to fight someone you can avoid it. Of course. The problem for me though arises when someone continually avoids someone, but also runs their mouth while refusing to engage.

    In those situations I feel like it's entirely reasonable to jump them and smash them to gibblets however you can. 
    I don't think anyone disagrees with you. It seems pretty common sense that if you talk trash, people are free to come for you. I wouldn't personally defend somewhere who I knew was saying "Nyah, nyah I'm better than you" to someone else and got jumped for it. If you want to talk the talk, you're fair game.

    All of the argument in the other thread was more about the situation I described where people simply don't want to do 1v1 and don't talk trash and provoke. If you don't purport to be a combatant at all but tagged along with me because I can't fight a group of enemies by myself, yes, I'm going to defend you if you get attacked later solely because you supported me in group combat efforts.

    Some people just frown upon everyone who does group combat but doesn't want to 1v1. But guess what, if the alternative is those people just not participating in group combat at all, raids and skirmishes are going to get pretty rare. You need a group to fight a group and have to use who you have.
    AtalkezKiskan
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 973 @ - Epic Achaean
    You know, though, relatedly, a lot of actual high tier fighters are guilty of refusing to fight certain classes, etc. these days. It's not artefacts or skill, it's "your class/this ability is OP."

    I can only get a duel with Proficy if I agree not to use piety. Seragorn wouldn't duel Atalkez when Atalkez was Blademaster. Some people (though admittedly no one really "high tier") flat out refuse to fight Priests, etc.

    To me, all of these things fall into the same category as above discussed, where you can't refuse to fight certain classes, impose conditions on fights, etc. and still claim superiority, but it's a more common occurrence for me than complaints about skill or arties.
    AtalkezAnedhel
  • FinkleFinkle Member Posts: 105 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    As an Occultist I hated fighting blademaster.   Mostly because leap high went through vertigo.   Hopefully they fixed it.  =(


  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 1,904 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Leap was your problem? Lucky man
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,491 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Finkle said:
    As an Occultist I hated fighting blademaster.   Mostly because leap high went through vertigo.   Hopefully they fixed it.  =(


    You were fighting a nice one then xD


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 973 @ - Epic Achaean
    Dunn said:
    Priest is frustrating as hell to fight (personal opinion) and it's a game. To each their own. It's like choosing not to fight Tirac because I would literally rather put my genitals on a train track than to get slow prepped for a half hour (thank fucking god for limb timers now). 
    Sure. I mean, people don't have to 1v1 at all if they don't want. They don't have to fight anyone they don't want to.

    But I think if you're competitive in 1v1, part of that is learning to beat every class, even if frustrating. Sometimes things get less frustrating when you get better at them too. There's often something you didn't think of before that solves the problem.

    You'd never have seen Tanris refuse to fight a certain class. Jhui doesn't. I don't. Atalkez doesn't. Different mindsets though. Depends what you play the game for.
    AnedhelAtalkezPrythe
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Farrah said:
    You know, though, relatedly, a lot of actual high tier fighters are guilty of refusing to fight certain classes, etc. these days. It's not artefacts or skill, it's "your class/this ability is OP."

    I can only get a duel with Proficy if I agree not to use piety. Seragorn wouldn't duel Atalkez when Atalkez was Blademaster. Some people (though admittedly no one really "high tier") flat out refuse to fight Priests, etc.

    To me, all of these things fall into the same category as above discussed, where you can't refuse to fight certain classes, impose conditions on fights, etc. and still claim superiority, but it's a more common occurrence for me than complaints about skill or arties.
    Lies lies lies!!! I dont like fighting in piety... i will if i have too... but its not fun having all your work undone by the rng luck of will it stop you or not... more fustrating than fun.... its your priest i wont fight.... 

    Did i mention i hate priests
    DunnPatroklos
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,222 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Farrah said:
    Dunn said:
    Priest is frustrating as hell to fight (personal opinion) and it's a game. To each their own. It's like choosing not to fight Tirac because I would literally rather put my genitals on a train track than to get slow prepped for a half hour (thank fucking god for limb timers now). 
    Sure. I mean, people don't have to 1v1 at all if they don't want. They don't have to fight anyone they don't want to.

    But I think if you're competitive in 1v1, part of that is learning to beat every class, even if frustrating. Sometimes things get less frustrating when you get better at them too. There's often something you didn't think of before that solves the problem.

    You'd never have seen Tanris refuse to fight a certain class. Jhui doesn't. I don't. Atalkez doesn't. Different mindsets though. Depends what you play the game for.
    I don't care about any of those people. Tanris heard that bus from a mile away. 


    FarrahFinkle
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Farrah said:
    Dunn said:
    Priest is frustrating as hell to fight (personal opinion) and it's a game. To each their own. It's like choosing not to fight Tirac because I would literally rather put my genitals on a train track than to get slow prepped for a half hour (thank fucking god for limb timers now). 
    Sure. I mean, people don't have to 1v1 at all if they don't want. They don't have to fight anyone they don't want to.

    But I think if you're competitive in 1v1, part of that is learning to beat every class, even if frustrating. Sometimes things get less frustrating when you get better at them too. There's often something you didn't think of before that solves the problem.

    You'd never have seen Tanris refuse to fight a certain class. Jhui doesn't. I don't. Atalkez doesn't. Different mindsets though. Depends what you play the game for.
    Tanris = unnatural at pk for some reason.. and played in a completely different time frame that what we are in. Now adays... you put mr against the 2005 priest class id rock there world all day

    Jhui never scared because he again is a freak of nature with pk. But he mostly does it to test out what hes donr so far... always fun to fight jhui when he is a new class.. get to exploit all his oversights

    And atalkez doesnt ever turn down fights cause be knows its how you get better at them. 100% positive the more atalkez loses. The more he WANTS to fight that class. 

    And you dont cause 2 out of 3 of your classes are op as all hell 

    Did i mention i hate priests
    AtalkezFinkle
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ooo lemme throw the disclaimer out there.. 
    I did not say.. cause i know you will take it that way.    That you only win because of the classes you are...

    You know what i think about your talent.. 
    BUT
    Jus saying artied serp and priest are known for being stupidily versitile.

    Did i mention i really hate priests

    Atalkez
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