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Auto-following target calls is bad, somehow, I guess

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  • CaliraCalira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 188 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 2016
    Atalkez said:
    I'd have to disagree with the premise that you don't treat them like afflictions. That's exactly what they are. They aren't useless because they aren't doing anything meaningful on their own, it's the combination that makes it deadly. 

    They are useful because you can bury them, and build them, and explode them without any real recourse defensively. They don't miss, you can't get away from alchie easily, and you can never cure them actively to keep them down once the fight is really underway and you would need to.

    I'm not sure what else you think that they would be considered?

    It being a slower 0>kill class doesn't necessarily mean anything, if through the course of its offense, it is taking minimal offense in return (which is currently the case as any class that can't hinder faster, which is basically limited to serpent). You can't discount these things when discussing how Alchemist works.
    As I said, I'd consider them along similar lines to Hypnosis. Something that you can't practically do much about while fighting the Serpent/Alchemist, but which has the potential to end the fight in a burst of afflictions to lock you on top of the normal affliction progression.

    Alternatively, consider it a time-bomb mechanic. 4 phlegmatic is the danger zone. 6/8 phlegmatic is an automatic loss. I'm not arguing against the potency of tempers, I'm simply arguing that you can't just pretend that they're as immediately impactful as an extra affliction per combo would be.

    Edit: I also DEFINITELY didn't call them 'useless'
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,559 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2016
    That's the thing, though. If a Serpent burns hypnosis - you can still live pretty easily if you have been defending properly to begin with. Alchemist doesn't offer that same situation, since either way you go is a bad way to go. It's one thing to have a fork in curing to capitalize on two kill paths, it's another entirely to pressure two kill conditions simultaneously without any downside or slowing of progress like hypnosis requires. Hypnosis is a prep, humours aren't anything like prep.

    You're discounting tree/active/passive not curing humours as they do other comparable afflictions.

    You're not calling them useless, except in the beginning and middle of a fight though? They're potent in endgame, but they don't really matter otherwise? Let's be real.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Anedhel
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,225 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eh I don't hypno every fight. It's not entirely necessary for a kill so I dunno. 


  • VenderVender Member Posts: 134 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    homonculus block uptime is 100% if i'm not wrong and serpent pinshot has a duration so there's that to consider as well
    Currently reading - The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not sure how you can say that something that'll screw you if you leave it uncured is not an affliction. 

    Farrah and Atalkez covered it pretty well. You can get rid of the affs to prevent a lock, or you can cure the tempers to avoid the instant kills, but not both (barring the avenue of leaving the fight). Not only that, all of this is unstoppable, since you can't actually hinder an Alchemist effectively as most classes.

    I'm really not sure how someone can have a hard time wrapping their head around why most people hate fighting that class. 
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 2016
    Perhaps reworking tempers to make them less of a burst more of a passive effect when inundated would help - with the passive effect being more powerful if you inundate with more tempers.

    For instance, could have inundated phlegmatic give passive afflictions every second or so, with how long it lasts or how many it gives based on the number of tempers when inundated. Similar effects could be done with the other humours.
  • VenderVender Member Posts: 134 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    no i think it has to be burst because alchemist does not have any prep, otherwise it would be too easy to just run after inundates. this is also why homonculus block is so strong because alchemist has to start from 0 every time the opponent leaves. post lock alchemist is survivable for quite a few classes, but 8 choleric is I think is the biggest timebomb aspect of the class.
    Currently reading - The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,903 @ - Epic Achaean
    Farrah said:

    Tempers aren't comparable to hypnosis or any kind of prep because they flatout kill you when they are finished building. Prep setups and hypnosis are survivable. The only balancing factor to tempers is that they -are- afflictions. Unlike hypnosis and prep, they can and must be cured.

    So yes, they have to count as afflictions.

    When you teach me to kill you I'll believe this



  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,903 @ - Epic Achaean
    Also if someone is going phlegmatic you know lock is coming, sanguine bleed, etc. I know the great curers are curing all..m but I'm not learning all so prearse herps



  • BannBann Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Szanthax said:
    Also if someone is going phlegmatic you know lock is coming, sanguine bleed, etc. I know the great curers are curing all..m but I'm not learning all so prearse herps
    I feel like you were speaking Targossian at the end of that...

    DevvanSzanthaxAziik
  • HirstHirst Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Let me put this entire thread to rest...

    Message #4833       Sent by Anytus
    9/27/16:42 Greetings. Regarding the issue #77501 filed against you by (redacted)
    for using illusions to mimic party calls. I've reviewed this situation and am
    dismissing the issue. For future reference, using IC illusions to cast a party
    into disarray is entirely permitted.

    Case closed.
    Bann
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,666 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I read... Parts of this thread. The worst combatants generally have the most automation. Combat in Achaea is a weird mix of baseline coding ability and really knowing combat. My offense is full manual. I target manually. Grandue actually demanded that I make a clan for Ashtan that taught everyone to follow a leaders targets via a script. It took too much work to remember all the checks and in the heat of the moment, they fucked it up.


    also, automation leads to some really funny complaints. Hands down they'll deny it, but for a few years targ was encouraging auto deliver scripts to save people from fights. Someone afk would save that person based on a tell. Ashtan could do the same via empress but most of us don't. I'd get threats to issue, etc, because someone would auto deliver someone I was fighting, and I'd go kill the deliverer. Also have issues with people accidentally hitting me because they're following a leader etc. I try to always follow up and kill that person. If you're not paying attention to what you're doing and that leads you to attacking someone at random you deserve to get steamrolled.
    image
    BannAegothFarrahVender
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 1,613 @ - Epic Achaean
    I won't say it was encouraged in my time in Targ, but it definitely was a thing. Was never something I was overly comfortable with - cos newbies would deliver someone without knowing it made them a target after. There were a few arguments about it around the turn of the RL year.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,046 @ - Epic Achaean
    It's not like Hirst and Seragorn don't have auto-emp scripts while they afk at battlements. It's fine to do. But like Jinsun noted, there are consequences. So shouldn't do it if you don't want to be attacked.
    AnedhelBann
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,666 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Farrah said:
    It's not like Hirst and Seragorn don't have auto-emp scripts while they afk at battlements. It's fine to do. But like Jinsun noted, there are consequences. So shouldn't do it if you don't want to be attacked.
    Yeah, I know a few people have auto emps that they enable upon afk. I don't have one because well, I don't want someone yelling for an emp without me knowing why or who
    image
    SarathaiBann
  • HirstHirst Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 2016
    Farrah said:
    It's not like Hirst and Seragorn don't have auto-emp scripts while they afk at battlements. It's fine to do. But like Jinsun noted, there are consequences. So shouldn't do it if you don't want to be attacked.
    I will admit to having it sometimes but I rarely rarely turn it on.  99.99% of all my emps are manual. I set allyTarget when somebody calls but I manually hit Ctrl-f8 to emp that target.  Just saying.

    I also do a lot of proactive emping. If somebody has been in a room taking dmg too long or bursts, I'll emp them out. Might seem like its auto from your end but it's very manual from mine.
    SzanthaxBann
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...

    Bann
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,903 @ - Epic Achaean
    Cynlael said:
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...
    I hate the f buttons.



    Vessil
  • NazihkNazihk Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Cynlael said:
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...
    If you're fighting in Achaea and you have a hand on the mouse you are doing it completely wrong.
    CooperBannAziik
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 578 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    A U T O M A T I O N.

    Am browsing internet while I let my system PK for me.
    VihoBannVessilIniar
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nazihk said:
    Cynlael said:
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...
    If you're fighting in Achaea and you have a hand on the mouse you are doing it completely wrong.
    ..Hence the second part of what I said..

    Caelan
  • HirstHirst Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Szanthax said:
    Cynlael said:
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...
    I hate the f buttons.
    I can do an entire skirmish on almost all F buttons. f1 to hangedman, f2 to aeon, f3 to lust, and numpad-5 to hound/warp.
    Bann
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    [screams internally]

  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,903 @ - Epic Achaean
    Hirst said:
    Szanthax said:
    Cynlael said:
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...
    I hate the f buttons.
    I can do an entire skirmish on almost all F buttons. f1 to hangedman, f2 to aeon, f3 to lust, and numpad-5 to hound/warp.
    But... My typing gets stupid when in trying to play achaea like a fps



  • VessilVessil Member Posts: 51 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited October 2016
    Homerow-centered macros OP
  • AdeleineAdeleine Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Nazihk said:
    Cynlael said:
    ctrl f8... The MMO player in me is weeping at such a keybind. I guess it's not SO bad when you're playing a game that doesn't require  a hand on the mouse, but still...
    If you're fighting in Achaea and you have a hand on the mouse you are doing it completely wrong.


    Buttons for DAYS.
  • VenderVender Member Posts: 134 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    i have seen systems where all the different attack macros are placed on buttons in a side window next to movement options, and i have known a player who played through his phone on blowtorch (and killed me) with touch screen and macro buttons on it.

    what i wanna see next is playing achaea with a homebrew wiimote. sheathe my wiimote before every attack as bm imo.
    Currently reading - The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan
  • AdeleineAdeleine Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Vender said:
    i have seen systems where all the different attack macros are placed on buttons in a side window next to movement options, and i have known a player who played through his phone on blowtorch (and killed me) with touch screen and macro buttons on it.

    what i wanna see next is playing achaea with a homebrew wiimote. sheathe my wiimote before every attack as bm imo.
    Improve your mudsexing with teledildonics!
  • VenderVender Member Posts: 134 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    now you can type paragraph long mudsex emotes with two hands...
    Currently reading - The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,874 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vender said:
    what i wanna see next is playing achaea with a homebrew wiimote. sheathe my wiimote before every attack as bm imo.
    I think @Zulah was playing around with something similar using a Kinect at one point? May be misremembering some of the details.
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