Furnishing Questions

Kez

I have questions! (And a concern)

I'd love to put furniture in my shops but I am concerned about the ability of others to destroy it. Is there any prevention for unwanted furniture removal?

Do the items use the special furniture id system (with its own set of item numbers) or have they been brought in line with typical item creation? If the latter, will reaction customisation (push/pull/turn/etc) become an option?

If it's not already the case, can we (players) submit sentences for each descriptor to fill out the uncustomised furniture description, like was done with forging?

Cellorran

A valid concern and one that has been thought of! Destruction of furniture is a 'hand-shaking' process where the owner (or more accurately, somebody who has access to PLACE furniture in said location) must approve the Furnisher's attempt to disassemble the furniture. Any bugs aside (fingers crossed to the contrary), this shouldn't be an issue.

Jurixe

If anyone has already picked up the skill, can you post an example of it? Just wondering what the wording is like and praying it's not just a copy of the old furnishing system.

I'm also wondering how the placing will be affected - you used to be able to place furniture on others or near others.

What I really want more than anything else is to be able to customise the in room appearance, or at least not have it be just the name of the item, but waiting to see how it's intended to function.

Would it not be possible to give permissions to people to place furniture in your house, like if they were on your allies list?

Melodie

Here's my experience making a "basic" (no frills) basket:

frame construct basket (100 wood, 2k gold)

You lay out a pile of wood commodities, carefully inspecting each piece for imperfections.

Pleased with the selection, you cut and assemble several pieces of wood until they take shape into a crude frame.

You carefully plane and refine a crude carpentry frame until it takes on the rough shape of a basket. Seeing that your frame is now ready to be altered and furnished, you pay the workshop fee of 2000 gold sovereigns.

p frame

This crude frame has been assembled in the rough shape of a basic basket.

It weighs about 6 pounds.

(This is where you'd add in fancy crap, then...)

furnish frame

Taking a step back, you evaluate the dimensions and specifications of a crude frame.

You begin to refine the rough framework of a crude frame, shaving away at its imperfections and giving its shape more definition.

You pause for a moment to envision the finished piece within your mind's eye, carefully grinding a section down to meet specifications.

Turning your attention towards detailing, you expertly carve and chistle at your frame, giving it shape and character.

You walk a slow circle around a crude frame, gaining a new angle of perspective before refining the edges and style.

Finally pleased with your work, you step back to admire a simple basket.

p basket

Numerous strips of wood weave into this basket, its rim encircled by a slender band. Intended for various occasions, two handles at either side allow for the container to be carried with ease.

It weighs about 10 pounds.

It is closed and you can not see inside of it.

open basket

You open a simple basket.

After some bug-fiddling, found out it can hold 20 items, as well.

Maybe others have experiences with the more fancy stuff, I'm gonna need to get s'more credits first!

Atalkez

Positive thread, awesome.

Can I get a lockable chest or still no?

Nataliia

Yes please to lockable stuff in general (armoires, chests, etc.)

Cobault

If you people can have lockables I want lockpicking.

#SerpentEntitlement #TheyTookMyVenoms #IllusionStillBroke #WTFisPickpocket #IActuallyHateHashtags

Atalkez

Cobault said:

If you people can have lockables I want lockpicking.

#SerpentEntitlement #TheyTookMyVenoms #IllusionStillBroke #WTFisPickpocket #IActuallyHateHashtags

Or you can earn things like regular people, instead of stealing from those people.

Cobault

If that's the logic you wanna give to people that steal, then locks aren't necessary. I miss seeing world-renowned thieves that enter a room and everyone starts checking selfishness and a select few run off. Those whispers about the people you need to watch out around. I understand theft sucks to have it happen to you, but it's not like it comes without any consequences whatsoever.

Atalkez

The consequences are entirely dependent on the thief 'playing ball'. A good thief that has the right items can be virtually impossible to seek retribution against.

It's a terrible mechanic.

Cobault

And here I was, wondering how theft had broken down to the annoying and useless mechanic that it is now.

Your shop isn't safe even though it has a lock. Hell, theoretically, any Class can empty out your stockroom if you're not careful. Putting stuff in a chest, locking said chest, lol'ing as you stick it on your Serpentine keyring with your other 234230943209 keys that you own for other lockables? No. THAT is a terrible mechanic.

Atalkez

Have to disagree pretty seriously, sorry.

Everything in this game equates to time spent. Steal someone's gold? That's their time. Steal their shop inventory? Again, their time.

Stock rooms not being safe has no merit to the argument, as that mechanic could also be adjusted for owners only being able to remove things.

It's not a good thing to have happen in real life, so how is it acceptable for a game? 

The pros vs cons of theft are heavily in favor of the thief. They choose when and where, and have the ability to withhold anything or extort absurd sums for return of goods. They can pretty easily escape most any situation, and never be seen again. It's not difficult to be a thief and rarely die because of it.

It's a bad mechanic, and I'd love to hear someone defend it.

Kiskan

People did defend it.  For what seemed like an eternity.  And they were incredibly successful.  Until one day they were a lot less successful (Tecton's study had a lot to do with that I think).

Bleak

Its fun for the thief. 

Cobault

How to avoid theft in one easy step:



No, but seriously. I don't even steal and I never stole (quick edit here: I helped a lot of thieves, watched them, chatted with them. They're generally fun people,) If you think it's not time consuming being a thief, you've clearly never done it and shouldn't be talking about it. Let alone the fact you believe that someone can steal stuff and just flit off to parts unknown to never be seen or heard from again. That was NEVER a thing. Sure. You could run back to your City. You can hide. I vaguely recall Mhaldor (yes, the whole City,) being raided one time just because @Antidas was there and people squaded up and wanted to teach him not to steal.

It's not a good thing to happen in real life, but stop trying to pretend that it doesn't. It's not a good thing to get killed irl either, so, I'm guessing you want everyone to be immortal always, too? I mean, yeah, we can come back in Achaea. You ever seen a vivisect though? Like actually read all the stuff happening? Sounds like a horribly shitty way to go out, regardless of coming back. Tbh I don't think I'd wanna come back irl after having that happen to me. If you get robbed, I don't care if it's stripped down to naked and they take your everything and it makes you stop playing... I really don't care. Have fun somewhere else. I got robbed once over the course of my two characters and close to a decade of playing. How only once, Cobault? Because I learned anti-theft. I made it solid. I paid attention. You can put all the time into grinding your precious things but you can't take the time to ensure their safety? Come on, man. That's just absurd.

There. I defended it.

Anedhel

Every single one of your arguments hinges on the victim being responsible for it. They robbed you? Spend the next week chasing someone who's probably veiled, sits in ships/Cities a lot. You want to avoid being robbed? Look over your shoulder eternally. You pissed you got robbed? Stop playing. 
The view that everyone else exists for your amusement/profit is a pretty terrible attitude. A big part of games being fun is people being willing to make it fun for other people, even if they have very cool toys that are incredibly annoying for said other people. I've yet to meet a new-generation thief that embraces that. (I had fun with Tenebrus, but mostly because he was obnoxiously charming.)

This thread isn't about thieving, though, so I will ask: what pieces of new furniture can you put stasis on, if any? :O 

Kez

Atalkez said:

Positive thread, awesome.

Can I get a lockable chest or still no?

Look what you did.

Cobault

...Which is the same case in combat. They killed you? Spend the next week chasing them. You want to avoid being killed? Git gud and look over your shoulder eternally. I never had to look over my shoulder. Couple triggers here, couple triggers there, an extra few containers to misplace gold, never go afk.... not hard. You pissed you got killed? Stop playing.The view that everyone else exists for your amusement/profit, wtf? That IS the game. It's not like you're gonna be playing Achaea as the only mf online. The interactions with people is amusement. You shouldn't do any work with any tradeskill because that turns people into profit.

You right though. I'll stop ranting about thieving. Granted it all derived from people begging about lockables and stuff... but it's just... what do you need locks on chests and other furniture pieces for? Why do we need to generate so many unnecessary keys? You literally would be at a point you can put your everything non-decayable in a chest, lock it, gg. It will never be touched.

Asmodron

Id love to give my personal experience on thieving on both sides of the playing field buuuut this thread isnt for that. If you would like to make a thread about it, then please do.

As for furniture, i have yet had the time to log in and check it but im hoping there are some form of advantages to having some items? Perhaps even the construction of large things for cities such as a fountain that people can sip from?

Yae

I don't think locking is bad, and it'd probably come at a price? There's already something similar, with display cases, where you can place them and no one but the owner can take them out. This has the bonus of people being able to see the things in it ..

Tahquil

Lock Sigil next talisman/Sow item. Attach it to a container and it spawns a key that can be copied in the usual way. 20mc

Antonius

Cobault said:

You literally would be at a point you can put your everything non-decayable in a chest, lock it, gg. It will never be touched.

How does that affect you at all? Why do you feel so entitled to somebody else's property that them being able to put them somewhere that you can't get to them is such a major issue?

Atalkez

Cobault, I've never been stolen from where I lost anything I valued. I keep selfishness down for the purpose of baiting serpents to own in retaliation. 'Git gud' isn't a response, though, unfortunately.

Permanent escapability is a very real thing. If you don't believe that then I have to question how often you play the game.

You're posting from an entitlement aspect, like Antonious said. 

Still waiting on defending theft with logic not 'git gud' memes.

Asmodron

@Atalkez

It goes something akin to this:

Blah blah immersion
Blah blah threat value
Blah blah RP roles
Blah blah keep people on toes
Blah blah git gud, stop crying

*Splashes in stolen gold from unaware novices/afk*

And that's an exact quote

Antidas

I'm not going to derail a thread about furnishings further by discussing the issue of theft here, but I would be glad to explain my opinions on theft and the system as a whole in a separate thread or in private if anyone cares enough to talk to me about it. Suffice to say, I think you all need to git gud (*insert meme here*), and I absolutely love rolling in the stolen gold of 18 year old level 30 noobs who don't know any better.*

Also, @Cobault, that totally did happen, far more than once.



*Before someone gets mad, sarcastic comments are not meant to be taken literally.

Verrucht

I kind of skipped a lot of posts, because a lot of this was dumb but:

As far as I'm aware they've politely declined to make things lockable (especially furniture) in the past, and I don't see why this system would change anything in regards to that.

Aerek

That is, to my knowledge, because the implementation of the furniture code was compartmentalized from other Achaean mechanics, and was not -able- to be lockable. Lockable chests and containers that do exist were not actually "furniture" as purchased from Fronck, but special items created by the Admin for those special cases. Now that this is no longer the case, and furniture obeys the same rules as everything else, lockable furniture are an actual possibility, as opposed to a mechanical impossibility.

Hell, keys are still pickpocket-able. Lockable furniture means more people would be carrying them. It's kinda a win/win for everyone that wants a safe stash spot, and for Serpents who dream of busting one of those stash spots.

Jinsun

As a former and very hated thief, lockable containers wouldn't bother me so long as forcing unlock was possible. Realistically, pickpocket is 100% preventable through 2-3 simple things that 98% of Achaeans are too lazy to do. It's why I always found the boohooing about it so laughable. Lockable containers would have almost no appreciable effect with regard to people able to currently be pickpocketed. In short, both sides are wrong. Lockable containers ain't shit. I've broken into enough shops

Shirszae

If you want to store shit you can just put them in your ship house anyway. Good luck breaking in there. Lockable containers would just be an interesting rp convenience.

Lisbethae

Seems like a big assumption to think that furniture obeys the same rules as everything else. Have Admin said this is so?

Keys are not pickpocket-able on keyrings.

Jonathin

Yes, please give me a reason to use my keyring