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Censual Census

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  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,344Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xaden said:
    Well, that's 16.2% of people who can fuck off.
    :bleep_bloop:
    Huh. Neat.
  • TaarkosTaarkos Posts: 39Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hey! That's not nice. We're not all so bad.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,170Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yep those numbers seem pretty on the dot, though I admit I dont see Magi that often.
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,849Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Austere said:
    I miss the full charts that showed which class had which race mixes. I always rather enjoyed finding out I was an oddball(sadly I'm not now) 
    That's what Makarios's post was before he edited it. I didn't think to save it (and it probably wasn't restricted to active players anyways).
    Austere
  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoPosts: 1,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Any way to see what the most picked up secondary classes are?

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Man, factional classes get little love, holy cow. Poor Necro/Devo :( 
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,828Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No one wants to be on the end of an exco/anathema

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Haven't there only been like two cases of that in a thousand years or something? :D 
  • SarathaiSarathai Posts: 2,139Member
    Anedhel said:
    Haven't there only been like two cases of that in a thousand years or something? :D 
    There were a couple of Cyrenians who got excommed when they split from Devotion last year. It was posted on forums and everything.

    Anathema I'm not sure on the numbers for, or Occies who've lost whatever it is from admin/Babel.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaPosts: 4,595Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2016
    I believe there's only been two Occultists who ever faced that? I might be wrong, it's just the only two I ever heard of. Super rare.

    Anathema is also pretty rare, and unique in that even if you get anathema'd, you can get it removed by whatever player is the Dread Eclair. So even when they do happen, if you follow certain instructions, it should be okay to get removed. I can think of one case where that happened recently. But again, not too common.

    Excommunication is definitely the most common of the three, but I think after Cyrene gave Targossas the big middle finger (and any of the consequences that entailed), it mostly dried up and stopped. Assuredly more than "two cases in the last thousand years", but I think that's Anedhel just being sarcastic, because I cover that number all by myself.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2016
    Shouldn't be an issue with Devo anymore, unless you do something real big and get yourself booted out of Targ while still a Devo class (have any Targossians been excommunicated? I haven't heard of any since I've been playing a Targ, if memory serves). Same with Necro, and since Hashan and Ashtan both have Occultists, I assume the rules are even more lax for them, no? Seems like it'd be pretty hard to get excommunicated, nowadays. 

    ETA: Also, wasn't sarcasm, more like hyperbole. But yes, I really do think it's a non-issue these days, unless you really do something to bring it down upon yourself. 
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,828Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Even if  you consider it 'not an issue', it is a possibility people just don't want to deal with.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Iolanthe
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,134Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Then stay true to the ideology of those classes.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Anedhel
  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,243Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Character changes happen @Atalkez .  A devout priest succumbing to dark temptations isn't anything new to fiction.  It's just that in those cases, the class can't be retained (as with every other non-factional class).  Instead you just get stripped of a good majority of the class, limited in every other way, and then promptly evicted.  If a blademaster(say, you), fell to temptation and joined Mhaldor or the like.  You wouldn't have to class switch.

    That's what most people are on about.

    Also this isn't really the thread to go on about this, there is another one that was specifically made for the topic ya'll discussin.
    Shirszae
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,134Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aerek said:
    Snip
    I'm not advocating that factional classes are a good thing, or cool. I would love to play some of the classes that aren't availably to the faction I'm in. The stances of the administration against new factional classes is answer enough for that. It's just not worth it.

    That doesn't change that the current climate is what it is. In this current structure, why is it difficult to understand that Devotional/Essence pools stem from the Gods tied to that ideology? If you go against that God/ideaology, then you don't get to reap the benefits of that commodity (devo/essence), and most certainly shouldn't delineate into a 'twisted' version of the class. It takes away from the people who do want to play the class and everything that comes with it. If you choose a faction-locked class, you are also accepting to play the way that faction expects you to play. Mhaldor/Targossas are ran purely by their Divine (when they are active, rip). What they say, goes.

    While I can understand the arguments that other classes don't have those constraints, and that it can be unfair to the player that has to go through that loss of investment etc; that doesn't change the fact that it's very clear upfront that you are selecting a archetype just as much as a class.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    FinkleQuisseBadeHalos
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAPosts: 1,813Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Because those classes are not actually restricted or locked to those Gods or those factions. (For Good/Evil, anyway, more on that below.) Mechanically, that is not true, that's just the player-driven lore used to justify the status quo. (Which wasn't always this way.) Mechanically, any player can become a rogue one, any state can allow them if they so choose. (Ashtan/Hashan still allow them all) If the players wished it, anyone could play those classes without so much as a nod to their respective Gods or factions. That's the issue, these classes aren't factional because they're designed that way, they're factional because players (Gods included) have written lore that demands fealty on penalty of losing skills.

    Notice that Forestals almost never complain about the threat of losing Groves/Woodlore, because they're physically incapable of joining factions that have chosen to "oppose" Nature via Alchemists; (The premise is flimsy, but it solved the Mhaldorian Forestal problem!) "Green Excomm" isn't required to keep Forestals in line. Notice that we rarely hear complaints about Occultists losing Domination, because that's God-controlled and only doled out for specifically attacking/betraying the Chaos Lords; it has nothing to do with player factions or ideology. These restrictions I have no problem with. Anathema/Excommunication are the odd men out, because there are fewer restrictions on those classes, grounds for losing your skills exist in a grey sea of subjectivity, and use of that power has been pretty heavy-handed by comparison. (They're only "rare" because we all know better than to risk it. Mhaldor is at least upfront about Anathemizing rogues on sight; Targ has blanket Excommed 5/6 cities while still asserting you "can" play non-Targossian.)

    If those classes are supposed to be confined to their respective factions, then they should be mechanically confined to those factions, which is something I've advocated for years now. Leaving them technically available to everyone, but in practice confined to home base by player decree, just causes bad blood when Excom/etc is used, confuses new players who pick the wrong city/class combination because they can, frustrates old players like me that remember when those classes were more free to play unorthodox roles, and spawns these arguments endlessly.

    It should be one or the other, but the Admin keep straddling the fence on this, and it does no one any good.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    ShirszaeAziikBade
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaPosts: 4,595Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Aerek said:
    Snip
    I'm not advocating that factional classes are a good thing, or cool. I would love to play some of the classes that aren't availably to the faction I'm in. The stances of the administration against new factional classes is answer enough for that. It's just not worth it.

    That doesn't change that the current climate is what it is. In this current structure, why is it difficult to understand that Devotional/Essence pools stem from the Gods tied to that ideology? If you go against that God/ideaology, then you don't get to reap the benefits of that commodity (devo/essence), and most certainly shouldn't delineate into a 'twisted' version of the class. It takes away from the people who do want to play the class and everything that comes with it. If you choose a faction-locked class, you are also accepting to play the way that faction expects you to play. Mhaldor/Targossas are ran purely by their Divine (when they are active, rip). What they say, goes.

    While I can understand the arguments that other classes don't have those constraints, and that it can be unfair to the player that has to go through that loss of investment etc; that doesn't change the fact that it's very clear upfront that you are selecting a archetype just as much as a class.
    I think you're missing a really big point though: What was "expected" changed very drastically from when some people (especially older characters) chose the class, and then today. When Aerek and I were playing priests, devotion was still in every city exempting Mhaldor. And yes, that includes Ashtan. The Church went through all kinds of crazy changes over the years, then fell due to uselessness, then the Citadel, then all of Shallam itself fell, and then Targossas had entirely new Gods with a very different worldview on how to enact Good.

    Yes, that is the current standard, but it sure as heck wasn't for quite a long time. Between that and events over the years, it's understandable the less-new people are (and will be) pretty sour about it for a long time to come.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can't really make a rational argument against something like 'I'm sour over the way things were a couple years ago.' 

    Currently, non-fraternisation rules are pretty relaxed, and like I said, I don't think I can actually recall a Targossian that was excommunicated. I get what you're saying about ambiguity regarding the rules for being excommunicated and all, but in practice, since Devotion was made Targossas-only, it's mostly cleared up, hasn't it? 

    Also, while I get what you're saying about a rogue being able to pick up any class, it seems odd to make a distinction between 'mechanically impossible' and 'admin-sanctioned in-game convention.' Either way, it's an admin-enforced reality, so the fact that you theoretically -could- pick up Devotion as a rogue and then apply and get admitted into Ashtan (with no one noticing any step of the way, which I really doubt!) doesn't really seem like enough of a factor to cause confusion to the degree where it's a problem that comes up very often (can you actually recall any instances of this happening? I can't!). 

    But, if the prevailing sentiment is 'it used to suck,' then, like I said, not much to discuss there. 
    Lisbethae
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,134Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2016
    Mechanics and ideology of a faction aren't the same thing, though.

    What argument can be made that says Necro/Devo pools are supplied by means NOT tied to the respective Divine of that faction? Whether it's player-driven lore (which has many examples of player-driven becoming as close to canon as it gets. Look at the Key for Ashtan, for instance) or original canon is irrelevant.

    Ideologies also change over time. Nowhere does it state that x ideology will always let you do y. 

    It's a logical conclusion to say that classes that use Devotion, should only be usable by those that are aligned with the faction that represents Devotion, being team Good. The same can be said of Mhaldor. There will be people who play in the faction, and deals with the pros/cons of being in that faction, that dislike others being able to have the same abilities with no downside.  If everyone has the ability to play the game how they want without the rules of the faction, but still get the abilities that faction gets to have: why play in that faction to begin with? That's the entire point of a factional class, isn't it? To represent that faction?

    As to the list of things that can go wrong, and the things that you can/can't do. Keep in mind, there is an entire populace of the city that is..already doing all of that. Why is your play time any different than theirs, in that respect?

    Conversations about relaxing factionalization of classes, generally, seem to stem from the want to use the skills without the need to be a part of the faction. All the upside, little downside.

    Anyway, this discussion isn't really right in this thread. Welcome to make another thread if you wish to continue discussing it!


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • GreysGreys Posts: 683Member, Seafaring Liason ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Reason devotion is so closely policed has to do with deliverance. If an enemy has it, they could constantly do it to the Good players onto guards and the like (yes I know that when anyone of the right alignment could be delivered this was abused, wasn't party to it, Greys likely would never be a devotion user).
  • TreyTrey Posts: 4,531Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Part of the time I spent as a demigod was constantly delivering Mephaos into the Brass Lantern. His friends started helping me after a while when he hurled verbal abuse at them for not killing me for it. Then I summoned him onto guards and got warned for it. 10/10 would troll as demigod again.

  • TyrmalonTyrmalon Posts: 12Member
    edited April 2
    [void]
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