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Random Shaman combat questions

OmorOmor Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
I've been working my way through shaman for a bit now, asking questions on a different thread, so figured I'd just make a thread here. 
To start off, I have a couple.
1) What's better for sticking afflictions quickly: swiftcurse <aff>, or curse <aff>/jinx <aff><aff>/invoke <something>? In my testing, you can't swiftcurse/invoke, and swiftcurse (or breach or blight) doesn't proc jinx.
2) Does invoke coagulation just add an affliction to your curse, or does it do something special with the affliction? Like make it harder to cure/act like a blight/etc.
Omor Ceberek - Targossas

got gud

Comments

  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaPosts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Curse aff invoke relapse aff >>> Jinx aff1 aff2 >>> swiftcurse
    Omor
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I fall back on swiftcurse once I have no more invokes I want to use and I don't have any jinx. Jinx's utility is largely in its ignoring of clumsiness and lack of use of swiftcurse stacks.
  • CynlaelCynlael Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Omor said:
    1) What's better for sticking afflictions quickly: swiftcurse <aff>, or curse <aff>/jinx <aff><aff>/invoke <something>? In my testing, you can't swiftcurse/invoke, and swiftcurse (or breach or blight) doesn't proc jinx.

    CURSE <target> BREACH does proc jinx. Don't swiftcurse it (swiftcurse doesn't speed breach up). I never noticed too much difference honestly, but I also just CURSE <target> <aff> INVOKE SOULREND when I had none of the afflicting invokes left. Don't really lose out on much, and have a pretty likely chance of gaining free fashions in the process.

    2) Does invoke coagulation just add an affliction to your curse, or does it do something special with the affliction? Like make it harder to cure/act like a blight/etc.

    Coagulation works just like jinx, except it requires... 150? Bleeding in order to coagulate the affliction. Generally it's used to finish a lock (by giving slickness), if you're locking without a doll (which would usually use soulscourge imbibe)

  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Coagulate is 20% faster than Jinx.
  • OmorOmor Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You guys are the best. Check back soon for more of me learning to not be a scrub!
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • BeorjiBeorji Posts: 21 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    My random question: Does anyone find it difficult to coagulate without sticking haemophilia? I tend to have problems with opponents that prioritize it.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 192 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Depending on how high they prioritise it, you'll have to change tactics. If they prioritise haemophilia so highly that they're not curing asthma or impatience first then you can abuse that to lock them with Soulscourge easily. If they wait until they're at a dangerous level of bleed to prioritise it, then you have to use Coagulate before the bleed gets too high. If they never prioritise it then you just inflame them.
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You shouldn't plan on being able to coagulate if you can't stick haemophilia. If they prioritise haemophilia then you can probably lock pretty quickly at that point.
  • XoatlXoatl Posts: 18
    edited November 2016
    Necroing this thread since it's the most recent one, and I'm gradually getting more windows of time to play in.

    How do you 'open' a fight as a Shaman? Locking with just swiftcurse burying affs under para/asthma seems like it's too easy to interrupt or stop with curseward/leave room. Thus I assume you start with a bleed/mana drain path so you can start soulrending for puppet fashions.

    If this is the case, what's the bleeding path? Stack ginseng affs, relapse haemo, bloodlet? Then switch to rushing for true lock and seal with coagulate or soulscourge if they prio the bleeding, else work to inflame by keeping haemo on.

    I read a lot about shaman and salve locks, but I think they were all pre-mangle nerf. Is this still a thing that you can sit on to move towards a true lock? Unless you're swiftcursing in the ~3s of salve lock duration assuming that you're landing mangle more or less perfectly each cycle, I can't see getting very far without running out of fashions to mangle with.

    How long does Tzantza take as you get more affs, and is it generally possible to pull it off on someone solo (without just locking them anyways), or is it more for group pvp with aff classes?

    A number of people have mentioned Shaman is partially a prep class, due to Vodun. The obvious (not necessarily easy/reliable) end games I see off of this besides soulscourge imbibe are aeon lock or aeon/concussion (I was hoping for some dirty blight sleep, aeon, jinx sleep sleep path but sleep isn't a curse :( ). Aeon recovery time is so slow I'm not really sure it's the point.

    Or is it so that you can land cripple or mangle to prone for a lock? It looks like you'd lose a lot of aff pressure any time you use a vodun skill unless it's adding something big to a lock, since damage isn't the focus, curses afflict more/faster, and vodun bleed is inferior.

    Haven't found any recent Shaman logs to look over, and all the deathsights I see are off of inflame. Feels like I'm missing something about Shaman combat. Thanks in advance, love how active the combat scene looks here.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 192 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    How you open a fight will depend very highly on the class and behaviour of your opponent. If your opponent plays a momentum class or doesn't decide to take you to slowprep hell, then you can open with Curses, using relapse to gain an early advantage. If you think they'll stick around a bit longer, you can use bloodlet for haemophilia and try to get value out of coagulation. Otherwise, you can invoke bloodlet for bleeding to burn their mana and get a good soulrend or two before they flee. If your opponent absolutely refuses to stand still at all then your only option is fashioning.

    The 'bleeding' path is pretty versatile. You can use bleeding to get access to the valuable lethargy or slickness afflictions, you can use it to drain mana and soulrend a lot of fashions very quickly, and you can use a lot of bleeding to instantly kill someone with sensitivity, inflame, and soulscourge throttle. The option that you get the most use of will depend on how highly your opponent decides to prioritise haemophilia.

    Shaman salve-locks can be done if you get a large enough (~40) fashion doll. You use command, cripple and mangles to put someone in a bad position, then punish them for applying restoration by giving anorexia, impatience, blocker afflictions, asthma + slickness with soulscourge and lastly paralysis and voyria. Swiftcurse alone is fast enough to do this if your timing is very good, and relapse and jinx give you a much more forgiving window.

    Tzantza is pretty much exclusively a post-lock finisher, but it's good at that role, being near-instant if your opponent has 7 relevant afflictions. For teams, you'll be looking to hinder and lock, push damage with sensitivity and inflame, or just spam throttle if you have a high int. Shaman fits nicely into any team

    If you want examples or more specific advice, please feel free to approach me in-game.
    Xoatl
  • XoatlXoatl Posts: 18
    Thanks, I'll take you up on that offer. In terms of less deep shaman discussion, do you happen to know the multiplier on inflame vs. bleed damage? And the cooldown on how often one can relapse?
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 192 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Inflame does 6.4x bleeding in unblockable damage, which sensitivity increases to 8.4x. The relapse cooldown is substantial, I think 20 seconds.
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Pretty sure it's just 6, 8 with sensitivity. No idea where the .4 is coming from?

    Relapse is 25 seconds.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 192 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Amranu said:
    Pretty sure it's just 6, 8 with sensitivity. No idea where the .4 is coming from?
    The extra 0.4 is probably from the Scimitar city upgrade
  • XoatlXoatl Posts: 18
    Wasn't aware that there were city constructs here too. Is there an in game command to check what constructs your city has?

    Had a little bit of time to start playing around with curses and looking into locks. Regarding slickness, besides coagulate/imbibe, is it possible to carry daggers or handaxes and envenom/throw them to land it without having to use fashions or have them bleeding? Could I even use some sort of high speed weapon (dagger?) and jab assuming no rebounding and I stripped sileris?

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 2,989 @ - Epic Achaean
    @Xoatl CITY IMPROVEMENT LIST.
    Huh. Neat.
    Xoatl
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoPosts: 1,903 @ - Epic Achaean
    Ahmet said:
    @Xoatl CITY IMPROVEMENT LIST.
    @Ahmet you .. helpful summmamabeech



  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 117 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Xoatl said:
    Wasn't aware that there were city constructs here too. Is there an in game command to check what constructs your city has?

    Had a little bit of time to start playing around with curses and looking into locks. Regarding slickness, besides coagulate/imbibe, is it possible to carry daggers or handaxes and envenom/throw them to land it without having to use fashions or have them bleeding? Could I even use some sort of high speed weapon (dagger?) and jab assuming no rebounding and I stripped sileris?

    Sileris doesn't block jabs or slickness, feels like you were confused on one of those. You can use weaponry to supplement vodun or spiritlore to afflict slickness if you so desire.
  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,055 @ - Epic Achaean
    Xoatl said:
    Wasn't aware that there were city constructs here too. Is there an in game command to check what constructs your city has?

    Had a little bit of time to start playing around with curses and looking into locks. Regarding slickness, besides coagulate/imbibe, is it possible to carry daggers or handaxes and envenom/throw them to land it without having to use fashions or have them bleeding? Could I even use some sort of high speed weapon (dagger?) and jab assuming no rebounding and I stripped sileris?


    You can use weapons, but coagulate and soulscourge are comboableable with curses for two afflictions at once, so I'd say they are generally better.

    It's noteworthy that you can combo bloodlet with a curse for easy haemophilia and can use teraile attune for free bleed on each curse, which makes getting to coagulate a lot simpler.
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