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Classlead Discussion Q2 2016

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  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,093 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2016
    Omor said:
    Morthif said:
    Atalkez said:
    Why? That would operate like every other forced movement in the game.
    This
    IMO mind throw isn't a forced move, but an action against someone. Like, I'm grabbing your arm and literally throwing you into another room, don't need you to be on balance to throw you. But, y'know, mentally. If I wanted to force a move, I'd 'mind command east' or some such shit (dunno if that even works, but you get the point).
    Flavour shouldn't come into a balance discussion. You can swing most skills in any subjective way you want, but that has no impact on how the ability should be balanced. You can restrict Mind Throw from the Monk's end (can't use it while paralysed/impaled/other restrictions) or provide preventative measures on the target's end (Mass, on-balance) but either way it needs limitations. 
    Anedhel
  • OmorOmor Member Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Shirszae said:
    I honestly don't think it needs to be made to respect balance. Just make it so impaled people can't mind-throw
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,093 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    yes    
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 257 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It also currently breaks the monk's mind lock, so it has some limitations for group combat already (not that I actually do group combat, so I can't speak to its current power there). 

    Mind throw while impaled clearly needs to either be gone or have limitations that can be more easily added in during kill executions. Whether mass or being off balance should stop it is purely a question for group combat. 
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,795 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Walls do stop Mind Throw, so if you're not fighting somewhere like Clouds or NoT with a dozen exits, you can reasonably counter it as Knight/BM. As such, I've never had a particularly difficult time with Mind Throw, but it's also fair to say I can't think of any reason that Monks should have the ability to dodge Impale in that manner, either. So speaking as a Knight and Blademaster, I'm pretty indifferent on this one, but if it is deemed a problem, just making it not work while Impaled would be the easiest fix with the least collateral damage.
    -- Grounded in one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    Sherazad
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,020 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My only problem with throw is in 1v1. Like when I chase douche bags to defendable and eat totems and guards. 

    Should bring beck mind link and require it.
    image
  • KalitheaKalithea Member Posts: 160 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    why not just make it also move the monk if they are impaled too?

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Personally if I had a giant sword through my stomach, I don't think I'd be able to concentrate enough to be able to throw someone with my mind.

  • KalitheaKalithea Member Posts: 160 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Cynlael said:
    Personally if I had a giant sword through my stomach, I don't think I'd be able to concentrate enough to be able to throw someone with my mind.
    True truth is true

  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 1,537 @ - Epic Achaean
    Cynlael said:
    Personally if I had a giant sword through my stomach, I don't think I'd be able to concentrate enough to be able to throw someone with my mind.
    That's cos you have yet to achieve complete mastery of mind, body and spirit. Bring back the Ashura.
    FinkleAesgarRennyn
  • MorthifMorthif Member Posts: 1,242 @ - Epic Achaean
    On second thought mind throw while impaled should act just like tumble off impale
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinMember Posts: 2,656 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morthif said:
    On second thought mind throw while impaled should act just like tumble off impale
    I -think- it causes them damage, just like tumble. Not sure though, and not the same anyway.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morthif said:
    On second thought mind throw while impaled should act just like tumble off impale
    It already does, it does damage to the person that throws.

    The issue is, it's generally not enough damage to kill anyone and the person can't walk in, impale and still disembowel to seal. It's effective at a kill-stopper, with little recourse on the other persons end except having walls up.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Shirszae
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
     A fun change would be just have the damage dealt when you throw the person impaling you scale with torso damage. Then if you have their torso prepped and they throw you,  they dsb themselves,  but if you're just Impaling them with no torso prep, it will act as normal. 

    Morthif
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It already does that too, generally it's still not enough vs a superior tanky monk. With as much prep (and defending of prep executions) as it takes for a knight to get to a torso dsb, asking them to also break an arm that they can't just apply way/touch tree for, or have a wall for every direction is a bit much.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For the record, the second suggestion in that classlead is for it not to work if the monk's impaled (I wrote that classlead). I also did write that it might present a group-combat repercussion the admins might not want to put in, for the sake of fairness. I still like giving options when I can, though.

    Would it hurt monks? Yes. Would it make the skill unusable? No, I don't think so. Beckon/Devo Force/hypno suggested movement, etc. etc. all require the target to be on balance and people still use those more than enough, don't they? Monks are spoiled :P
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 257 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So what you're saying is that we should replace mind throw with beckon? Sign me up!
    OmorAhmetShirszae
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 2,871 @ - Epic Achaean
    Anedhel said:
    For the record, the second suggestion in that classlead is for it not to work if the monk's impaled (I wrote that classlead). I also did write that it might present a group-combat repercussion the admins might not want to put in, for the sake of fairness. I still like giving options when I can, though.

    Would it hurt monks? Yes. Would it make the skill unusable? No, I don't think so. Beckon/Devo Force/hypno suggested movement, etc. etc. all require the target to be on balance and people still use those more than enough, don't they? Monks are spoiled :P
    Except you're comparing beckon (which is multi-target), devo force (which can force any command, variety of uses both in/out of combat), and hypno suggestion (which is another command with a lot of utility and flexibility), to mind throw, which is literally -just- "Oh hey I mind locked this person I can throw them x direction with this telepathic ability and do nothing else with it".

    I'm not saying that the complaint about impale isn't invalid, but you can't compare apples to oranges and expect that to be enough (not saying you specifically are doing that either, but a majority of the arguments seem to boil down to "it doesn't work like x/y/z so change it to work like x/y/z").
    Huh. Neat.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 2,871 @ - Epic Achaean
    Keorin said:
    So what you're saying is that we should replace mind throw with beckon? Sign me up!
    MIND SUMMON. Lets do it.
    Huh. Neat.
  • MorthifMorthif Member Posts: 1,242 @ - Epic Achaean
    Umm they have mind command too. 
    Anedhel
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 2,871 @ - Epic Achaean
    Morthif said:
    Umm they have mind command too. 
    Except mind throw is 30 lessons or so into telepathy. Mind command is not.

    And mind command requires undeaf, no?

    Idk. Simply pointing out that people are not making valid comparisons.
    Huh. Neat.
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 1,537 @ - Epic Achaean
    Ahmet said:
    Morthif said:
    Umm they have mind command too. 
    Except mind throw is 30 lessons or so into telepathy. Mind command is not.

    And mind command requires undeaf, no?

    Idk. Simply pointing out that people are not making valid comparisons.
    I'd imagine that people who have the where-with-all and the timing/reaction speed to mind throw <dir> at the point of impale have likely spent more than 30 lessons in their third class skill. 
    SobriquetBorranRhodri
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 1,996 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Introduce pyrokinesis to telepathy. Cos
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2016
    Nvm, not worth it. Yes, you're right, different skills are different, and always difficult to compare.
  • OmorOmor Member Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ahmet said:
    Keorin said:
    So what you're saying is that we should replace mind throw with beckon? Sign me up!
    MIND SUMMON. Lets do it.

    I swear I will completely give up kai cripple AND mind throw if we can get mind summon. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE WANTED TO PULL SOMEONE OFF GUARD STACK!?
    Sorry for shouting, but I've almost bought boomerang like four different times because of this, but it's rare enough not to warrant it's own artie (for me).
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • OmorOmor Member Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Also, @Anedhel I wasn't trying to call you out specifically, I had no clue who posted the classlead. Everyone is allowed their own opinion, I just felt stronger about that classlead than most of the others. We'll see how the admin feel about it soon enough. :)
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 1,996 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd appreciate a radiance nerf...just because it is too laughably easy to get kills and cause disruptions with it. Either have a monk when raiding to counter radiance spam or pop out those creds for wings/earrings 
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Omor said:
    Ahmet said:
    Keorin said:
    So what you're saying is that we should replace mind throw with beckon? Sign me up!
    MIND SUMMON. Lets do it.

    I swear I will completely give up kai cripple AND mind throw if we can get mind summon. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE WANTED TO PULL SOMEONE OFF GUARD STACK!?
    Sorry for shouting, but I've almost bought boomerang like four different times because of this, but it's rare enough not to warrant it's own artie (for me).
    If it's anything like Aetolia's mind summon, it wouldn't work while mass'd or on a mono.

  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 556 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    It breaks lock, but doesn't work if there's a monolith on either end. It bypasses mass.
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm kinda hoping the monk nerfs aren't strong enough.  That way I can switch to my 3rd class and run monk for this next qtr.

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