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PvE Adjustments

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  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoPosts: 1,906Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Lucianus said:
    Also, someone mentioned overkill.
    Survival skill - Overkill: When a critical would deal more damage than required to kill a mob, you gain a rush of energy lasting 15 seconds. The excess damage is applied on the next strike upon a denizen within that time.

    A wonderful skill from Aetolia.



    Yeah, Lusty has that too. Exact same thing. It's really nice for those on the extreme ends of the bashing attack spectrum (those who hit slow and fast, but wastes those hard crits on mobs at low hp % and those who do a lot of small and fast hits and end up landing a big crit as the killing blow).

    I wonder if Imperian has that implemented as well... I know for sure MKO does not have it.
    What about those that do fast hard high crit. It'd be so over kill



    Telendrieth
  • LucianusLucianus Posts: 416Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2016
    Szanthax said:
    Lucianus said:
    Also, someone mentioned overkill.
    Survival skill - Overkill: When a critical would deal more damage than required to kill a mob, you gain a rush of energy lasting 15 seconds. The excess damage is applied on the next strike upon a denizen within that time.

    A wonderful skill from Aetolia.



    Yeah, Lusty has that too. Exact same thing. It's really nice for those on the extreme ends of the bashing attack spectrum (those who hit slow and fast, but wastes those hard crits on mobs at low hp % and those who do a lot of small and fast hits and end up landing a big crit as the killing blow).

    I wonder if Imperian has that implemented as well... I know for sure MKO does not have it.
    What about those that do fast hard high crit. It'd be so over kill
    i meant slow and hard. me slow in the morning. my bad. > _ <
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  • TelendriethTelendrieth Posts: 212Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    What about those that do fast hard high crit. It'd be so over kill
    You make me smile.
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoPosts: 1,906Member @ - Epic Achaean
    What about those that do fast hard high crit. It'd be so over kill
    You make me smile.
    Yeah I do...



  • AegothAegoth Posts: 2,470Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm curious why they didn't just buff all classes to knight level? Didn't have to nerf knight bashing... just bring everyone else up to par with them damage/defense wise. That would have been ideal.

    Also yes, please incorporate Overkill into Achaea.
    IsmayTelendriethQwyn
  • TahquilTahquil Posts: 3,977Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd hazard a guess that the admin have a set of expectations they want bashing to meet where recently classes fell on either side. Just buffing the other classes to meet knight class sets a bad precedent for power creep.
    Brean
  • AegothAegoth Posts: 2,470Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I disagree. Slowing down bashing is bad for the game. You have to speed it up and re-introduce high damage, quick kills. This makes it fast-paced and exciting again. This insane line of reasoning that players need to "bash slower" so there can be "more mob availability" is killing the game and is, frankly quite toxic to many people's enjoyment. Many players are angry. So angry that they've been boycotting bashing. To ignore the cries of the playerbase is to invite doom.
    TrillianaShirszaeTelendrieth
  • NakariNakari Posts: 596Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I think some slowdown, which has definitely produced more enemies available, has been a good change. However, when it takes 40 seconds or more to kill a single enemy, that just gets boring. Turning down knights some may have been necessary, but I was hoping that it would come with larger increases for monk/bm other lacking classes. Instead we got some changes that just seemed to make bad classes worse and serpent got buffed despite already being good at the mid to high end. I honestly don't really understand (nor do I understand why it always seems to take so long for any revisions to happen at all).

  • TahquilTahquil Posts: 3,977Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hey man, not my opinion, just guessing at what the admin may have been thinking.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,980Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    I think the best course of action would have been to nerf SNB Knights just a tiny tad, and bump everyone else to that level. Bashing would still be boring as all hell, but at least it would not be insufferable as it is most of the time now. I mean sure, battlerage is awesome as all, but that does not make up for the tedious feeling of trudging through mud some classes have.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • PenwizePenwize Posts: 1,328Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm curious, what exactly is it that you all find slow about bashing, compared to how it used to be?  And why is that bad?

    Is it how long things take to die?
    Is it how long it takes to gain xp or gold?
    Is it how slow your attacks are?
    UtianimaTaelMizik
  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,243Member @ - Epic Achaean
    @Penwize

    I can't actually hunt things that are supposedly my level.  My character has issues with murdering a lot of things due to actually being a god damn person and not "MURDER ALL THE THINGS" that some people have.  He has standards to his method of murder, and only kills things that deserve it.  Animals, Vertani, Orcs, those taryen, gnolls, etc.  The higher I get in my levels, the better my hunting gets due to critical chance.  However, this is quickly offset by the fact that.. I simply can't kill things on my own.  Dun Fortress is a death trap or tediously slow because I have to perform hit and run maneuvers to fight orcs/ogres there due to there being literally 2-stacked everywhere there is an orc usually.

    I know what monk hunting was like before, it was kind of insane on the damage.  Honestly?  If Monk damage for PvE was actually raised to the tier of like 2 handed weapons, wherein like.. I'm doing 7% or so per combo?  I wouldn't have ANY issue with the fact that I literally can't fight two enemies at once because of how squishy I am.  I don't know if it's the fact that "Oh you just have 14 strength, get 18 or more and you'll hunt just fine" or, "WELL OF COURSE U CANT HUNT.  U AREN'T ARTIED!"  but it's a tad.. annoying?  It's this weird sensation that to actually hunt as a monk, I have to be artied to the gills.  I don't like that, I want to be a class for RP and not have to randomly go "oh yeah, I changed my entire rp back story because being a monk is really bad at fighting.  Now I'm a rune warden who suddenly knows how to use a sword. :) "

    I rarely hunt now-a-days, much less if I'm on my own.  I attack 'fast'... but I can't keep attacking because I repeatedly have to run due to how monks can't take a hit.  If we could just hit a helluva lot harder than 2-3% for the 14-15 STR.. I'd be super happy considering just how squish we are.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,980Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Why do the Taryen deserve  death? :/ The Ursu are not any better.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,243Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Taryen/Ursu.  Someone mentioned to Fred IC that they like.  Did some fucked up shit and kidnapped children and turned them.  He kills em for it.
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,834Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't mind it but FINDING non cleared hunting spots is definitely and then half way through clearing somewhere having to fight someone coming in. I think having a pebble or island wings might make me enjoy it a lot more.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,980Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    And so the punishment is Genocide. I see.  :p

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,834Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    And so the punishment is Genocide. I see.  :p
    ...That's my punishment for everything, everywhere. 


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    UtianimaVallie
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,980Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Minifie said:
    Shirszae said:
    And so the punishment is Genocide. I see.  :p
    ...That's my punishment for everything, everywhere. 
    That was more aimed at @Frederich :tongue:

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 1,970Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For me it's the perceived "Completion time" for a denizen or group of. If I'm spending 1 minute per mob repeatedly hitting my bashing macro then it does get boring. If it looks like I'm actually making headway and doing more than 2% her hit and moving on to another room it feels like more of an accomplishment. Either way, my lvl 3 pendant feels like my valuable Artie for the most part, but people shouldn't have to spend 1200cr just to feel like they can hunt without going afk/getting bored/ watching Netflix while leaning on F1. Hunting on Sob with Arties is great (as you'd expect) while hunting as my new lvl 81 is tedious as hell. Admittedly class info on that alt has been left out intentionally but it has a lvl 1 class specific weapon
    image
  • AnnwylAnnwyl Vancouver, B.C.Posts: 36Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Forget levels. Hunt what you can kill safely. Some classes are squishy. It makes no sense at all for everyone to be a knight without actually being a knight. Serpents, jesters and a host of others struggle with this, and all of them have skills and options available to them within their individual classes, too. If you want to be as strong as a Runewarden, be a Runewarden and give up all the stealthy, venom-loaded tricks that no Runewarden can use. Serpents make it to become dragons all the time. People in every class get there.

    The secret to becoming a dragon, whatever class you are, is very simple: don't die. Hunt things you can actually kill without dying. Death costs a huge amount of XP and time. Stay alive. Kill things you can kill. Stop complaining. It's a grind for everyone at some point.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,980Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well, yes. Serpents are one of the best bashing classes.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,243Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Serpents supposedly are.

    I look at Monk and people are like "BODY BLOCK, REGENERATION AND BOOST IT, VITALITY!"  Things I already (which by the way, vitality does jack shit for hunting except give you a 2nd chance incase you messed up then it's not available to be used for another 2-3 minutes).

    I have to use my mana, consistently, to stay alive.  In the form of transmute 1000.. that's 1000 of my 2500 mana to get about.. 750~ health back.  Or they say numb.. to which my reply is "That's insane to do unless you do hit and run tactics".

    Maybe I just don't know where all the elite hunting spots are for my level as a monk because magi's can tank areas that I can't and come out of it relatively unscathed. :(
  • DaironDairon Posts: 292Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2016
    Where are you hunting? I never went to many of the 'supposed hunting zones' as a serpent simply because I couldn't tank them. Dun was off limits to me until mid 90s. Vertani I skipped until I hit 99. 

    Don't go by what the perceived hunting zones are - find what you think is best and go with it.

    Side note: Serpents are godly with their speed now, but we still can't tank things. Unless you're Penwize :astonished:
    SherazadUtianima
  • AnnwylAnnwyl Vancouver, B.C.Posts: 36Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    If it's too hard to hunt and stay alive, you're in the wrong area. Forget what anyone else can do. You're the only one you have to work with. You can't take Dun at level 82? Fine. Try somewhere else. Mysia is good. Spend more time with the grizzlies in the Southern Vashnars. Scorpions are useful, always. And never forget the boars in the Black Forest. The boar will teach you everything you ever need to know to be a good hunter and he'll do his best to kill you, every time.
    Dairon
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,834Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Annwyl said:
    If it's too hard to hunt and stay alive, you're in the wrong area. Forget what anyone else can do. You're the only one you have to work with. You can't take Dun at level 82? Fine. Try somewhere else. Mysia is good. Spend more time with the grizzlies in the Southern Vashnars. Scorpions are useful, always. And never forget the boars in the Black Forest. The boar will teach you everything you ever need to know to be a good hunter and he'll do his best to kill you, every time.
    Or you could hunt Cyrene...


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    Brean
  • SarathaiSarathai Posts: 2,139Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dairon said:
    Side note: Serpents are godly with their speed now, but we still can't tank things. Unless you're Penwize :astonished:
    Well, one should always remember in comparisons that Penwize is level 138, has 12k+ health in dform and as Serpent lesserform is still somewhere around 7.6k health, plus he's functionally omni-artied, pretty much always runed, and has a couple of auction and promo items that boost his defense above and beyond what Serpent already has.

    He's an aberration.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
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    TelendriethUtianimaAnnwyl
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Posts: 212Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's sad, because a lot of these opinions are clearly based on level and arte/health pool. Earlier someone stated they were "Shredding" through enemies as SnB. And I'm not saying they aren't, since I'm not over their shoulder watching. But my experience is vastly different. You really shouldn't balance baseline hunting around the people dropping a few grand and who are already level 105+.

    I think BR and the slowing down of hunting had a few positive effects. It made it so that more mobs are generally available at any given time, so you don't run the gauntlet trying to find a poor village that hasn't been destroyed at any given time. I feel that it was slowed down way too much though. It makes hunting a boring and vastly tedious chore for a large portion of the playerbase. Just looking into the reactions of people that may not frequent the forums, a lot of people are still upset over BR, and even more upset over recent damage shifts. It feels like a situation where the game is being balanced by parties that are either outliers, or don't actually play to experience what it's like.

    (Also.. Artied serent bashing is rather nice. Unartied serpent is god awful horrendous and somewhere above a bit more enjoyable than BM.)
    AegothFrederichSherazad
  • AegothAegoth Posts: 2,470Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Annwyl said:
    Forget levels. Hunt what you can kill safely. Some classes are squishy. It makes no sense at all for everyone to be a knight without actually being a knight. Serpents, jesters and a host of others struggle with this, and all of them have skills and options available to them within their individual classes, too. If you want to be as strong as a Runewarden, be a Runewarden and give up all the stealthy, venom-loaded tricks that no Runewarden can use. Serpents make it to become dragons all the time. People in every class get there. 

    The secret to becoming a dragon, whatever class you are, is very simple: don't die. Hunt things you can actually kill without dying. Death costs a huge amount of XP and time. Stay alive. Kill things you can kill. Stop complaining. It's a grind for everyone at some point. 


    This is PRECISELY the problem with new bashing. "Go hunt shit that you won't die to because you can't hunt shit you could hunt before" is NOT the solution, it is simply a flimsy excuse for allowing the perpetration of horrid game mechanics. You SHOULD be able to hunt mobs that are your level. You SHOULD be able to shred through those areas at a decent pace.  You SHOULD be able to bash JUST AS WELL as that Runewarden when you're a monk, or serpent. There should be NO difference when it comes to bashing. IF you think there should be, then YOU are the problem! What should NOT be tolerated is arrogant, upstart excuses like this where you simply shrug your shoulders and go "well, it sucks, but you need to go bash mobs that are 20 levels below you". UNACCEPTABLE! Instead of being part of the problem, be a part of the solution. Buff bashing, and stop making it a slow, trying task where a single mob gets to spend an hour smashing your head, wasting health vials and potash, and ultimately killing you because you can't last longer than the 15 minutes it takes to kill that one superbuffed mob since you're only doing 1% to him. No. Stop. OBJECTION SUSTAINED!
    Minifie
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,476Member @@ - Legendary Achaean

    That's hardly a problem with "new" bashing, there were plenty of people who weren't capable of bashing "level appropriate" (a phrase that has literally no meaning in Achaea) areas before Battlerage came along. Ultimately, if you want to go back to shredding through mobs, you'll also be going back to a lot of mobs dropping (low to mid) double digits in terms of gold, if any, and being worth basically fuck all experience.

    What you're extremely unlikely to get is a situation where every class is as capable both offensively and defensively as all of the others because that's literally the complete opposite of what Tecton has stated is their desired result.

    Utianima
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