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City Channel Standards

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  • ValkynValkyn Member Posts: 733 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Yeah... I left Cyrene to get away from a lot of the saccharine sweet crap on CT, it was irritating. We hardly put a stop to anything, it's only when it gets really obscene. CT is talkative sometimes and not others, but I really doubt it's us shutting down the odd obviously oocly drunk person that's causing it.

  • SilvarienSilvarien Member Posts: 570 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Valkyn : sounds like somebody doesn't like fluffy bunny truffle annihilation. We must torture her with a large soft feather.
    MamiAereidhna
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,161 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The sexual shit on CT annoys me but is rare enough to not be an actual problem. I hated seeing city leaders make creepy jokes on CT
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    AustereHalosJahat
  • SkarashSkarash Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yeah blatant sexual references and sexually charged conversations arent what I'd call scintillating converstion myself. But I feel one must err on the side of caution when policing ct.  Joking around may get obnoxious but that can be called camarederie.  Arguments - especially political arguments may become annoying and spammy but that shows engagement.  Camerederie and engagement - however are two highly desireable traits for any organization - it drives retention. So perforce - in my opinion a wise leader will tolerate a little bit of bad to attain a greater good. I've taken the long view on this - as part of Ashtan's Renaissance and our new city advancement rules - I built in proper ct usage in cr1 to 2 progression and made clear that the archon council can and will deploy tools to enforce proper usage - this runs the gamut of temporary muting, permanent muiting, cdfs demotion, loss of citizenship and enemy status. Eventually of course, what will really police ct is peer pressure - but until it gets to that point we as archons will have to run shotgun.  And of course inevitably there'll be some moron out there who will think that getting the last word means they've won an argument - fortunately city mutings work very well for that!
    ShirszaeTaeltwo
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,577 @ - Epic Achaean
    When there is actually something legitimately wrong with Hashan's CT, we'll look into it. As of right now, there is nothing wrong with it.

    Until such time as there is something genuinely wrong with Hashan's CT, I think it would be good if people stopped bashing on it here just because it's been quiet every now and again.
    Rangor
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinMember Posts: 2,656 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No one's bashing on it. Why do you guys have to be so defensive always?

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    MamiTaeltwo
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,577 @ - Epic Achaean
    If I'm not mistaken, just about every post Tael has done has been picking on the fact that Hashan's CT is real quiet and/or that we for some reason keep making our CT quiet.

    This is a thread talking about city channel standards. Not for picking every single thing wrong with each city's CT. I honestly think this thread has just about run its course.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinMember Posts: 2,656 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jukilian said:
    If I'm not mistaken, just about every post Tael has done has been picking on the fact that Hashan's CT is real quiet and/or that we for some reason keep making our CT quiet.

    This is a thread talking about city channel standards. Not for picking every single thing wrong with each city's CT. I honestly think this thread has just about run its course.
    Even if Tael was, he is just one person amidst many talking about what they dislike and like about the different cities comm channels. And besides, just as many have said that Hashan is fine and such. Its all opinion, no need to take them as some effort to make Hashan look bad or something. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Taeltwo
  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jukilian said:
    If I'm not mistaken, just about every post Tael has done has been picking on the fact that Hashan's CT is real quiet and/or that we for some reason keep making our CT quiet.

    This is a thread talking about city channel standards. Not for picking every single thing wrong with each city's CT. I honestly think this thread has just about run its course.
    Ironically, I think this attitude is case in point of Tael's observations. 
    image
    ShirszaeMamiTaeltwoAziik
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,577 @ - Epic Achaean
    Vayne said:
    Jukilian said:
    If I'm not mistaken, just about every post Tael has done has been picking on the fact that Hashan's CT is real quiet and/or that we for some reason keep making our CT quiet.

    This is a thread talking about city channel standards. Not for picking every single thing wrong with each city's CT. I honestly think this thread has just about run its course.
    Ironically, I think this attitude is case in point of Tael's observations. 
    Not at all :) 

    You see, these are the forums and I keep IC and OOC separate.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,587 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There definitely has to be some kind of standard. One of the many things that turned me off to the Warlocks during my time in it was the explicit sexual talk, everything from sexual bodily fluids to talking about each other's genitals. This was done even on the novice channel by full members. The general sexual behaviors and immaturity in the Warlocks scared me off of joining Houses, maybe forever. Whatever you do and talk about with you friends in private is one thing, but it doesn't belong on org channels.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    ElipiseValkynJanna
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,577 @ - Epic Achaean
    Yeah. Considering the age requirement for playing, such talk has no place on any public channel.
    ElipiseValkyn
  • SilvarienSilvarien Member Posts: 570 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2016
    Kayeil said:
    There definitely has to be some kind of standard. One of the many things that turned me off to the Warlocks during my time in it was the explicit sexual talk, everything from sexual bodily fluids to talking about each other's genitals. This was done even on the novice channel by full members. The general sexual behaviors and immaturity in the Warlocks scared me off of joining Houses, maybe forever. Whatever you do and talk about with you friends in private is one thing, but it doesn't belong on org channels.
    @Kayeil : I definitely think you shouldn't be turned off Houses by this happening in a particular House. I mean, this stuff does go on, but I personally have never been in a House where the leadership allowed it to any extent. Cyrene has its share of seedy sexual stuff going on, but I mean if that got into my House, I can see @Verrucht and Co. shooting to kill. I think if you have any regrets about not having a House, you should give Houses another shot, and just investigate with members before joining.
    ElipiseJanna
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 2,870 @ - Epic Achaean
    Silvarien said:
    Kayeil said:
    There definitely has to be some kind of standard. One of the many things that turned me off to the Warlocks during my time in it was the explicit sexual talk, everything from sexual bodily fluids to talking about each other's genitals. This was done even on the novice channel by full members. The general sexual behaviors and immaturity in the Warlocks scared me off of joining Houses, maybe forever. Whatever you do and talk about with you friends in private is one thing, but it doesn't belong on org channels.
    @Kayeil : I definitely think you shouldn't be turned off Houses by this happening in a particular House. I mean, this stuff does go on, but I personally have never been in a House where the leadership allowed it to any extent. Cyrene has its share of seedy sexual stuff going on, but I mean if that got into my House, I can see Verrucht and Co. shooting to kill. I think if you have any regrets about not having a House, you should give Houses another shot, and just investigate with members before joining.
    Yes, this definitely wasn't the case when I was a part of the warlocks, or any house for that matter. The CIJ was by far the most lax house I've been in when it came to both things bordering insanity over public channels and crude references on the house channels, and that would have gotten someone ousted REAL damn quick. That's completely unacceptable in any house, and no house standing today would allow behaviour like that over house channels (I would hope).
    Huh. Neat.
    Janna
  • TaeltwoTaeltwo Member Posts: 55 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Kayeil said:
    There definitely has to be some kind of standard. One of the many things that turned me off to the Warlocks during my time in it was the explicit sexual talk, everything from sexual bodily fluids to talking about each other's genitals. This was done even on the novice channel by full members. The general sexual behaviors and immaturity in the Warlocks scared me off of joining Houses, maybe forever. Whatever you do and talk about with you friends in private is one thing, but it doesn't belong on org channels.
    To be clear about what I meant: yeah, I completely agree that that's not okay. I think pretty much everyone would agree on that. Like I said - if it's obvious that something's not okay, it should be dealt with.

    What I meant to address was more joking innuendo, vaguely sexual puns, etc. - things that are more like stereotypical rogueish bragging and normal joking around than explicit discussion of fluids and genitals. I mean something like "You know what they say about dwarves with big hands...", not "Let me tell you about Tael's dick".

    I've seen, on several channels (not just Hashan's CT), people shutting down what was ultimately pretty tame joking around because it was vaguely sexual. Occasionally it seems like it's some blanket puritanical impulse, but I think more often it's shutting things down "before they get out of hand".

    But obviously some things should be shut down. I think those circumstances are usually obvious and I don't think they demonstrate the need for an explicit guideline or a blanket policy. To borrow a turn of phrase: I know it when I see it.
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,577 @ - Epic Achaean
    Vayne said:
    Jukilian said:
    Vayne said:
    Jukilian said:
    If I'm not mistaken, just about every post Tael has done has been picking on the fact that Hashan's CT is real quiet and/or that we for some reason keep making our CT quiet.

    This is a thread talking about city channel standards. Not for picking every single thing wrong with each city's CT. I honestly think this thread has just about run its course.
    Ironically, I think this attitude is case in point of Tael's observations. 
    Not at all :) 

    You see, these are the forums and I keep IC and OOC separate.
    Assuming your response is somewhat tongue in cheek, you continue to act defensively and draw IC/OOC lines. Your discouragement to continue the discussion is not unlike the experience some players have experienced in game. While correlation does not prove causation, nor has anyone accused you or your character of anything personally, I think it is clear that our personal beliefs, feelings, and biases always come through into our characters to some degree.  I find especially so in leadership and admin positions where people are well intentioned and trying to maintain a good environment for better or worse.
    Feel free to take this to messages if you insist on continuing to discuss this with me so as to avoid cluttering this up.
    Taeltwo
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,577 @ - Epic Achaean
    I have no problem with the discussion. Just the unnecessary singling out and making it seem like there's a problem when there isn't one.
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 3,458 @@ - Legendary Achaean

           
    JukilianMamiPippitAziik
  • DortheronDortheron Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    If anyone in Ashtan knows that when I'm always willing to talk on ct and I often ask a question that's become my motto "Does anyone have any questions or need help with anything?" While this is primarily aimed at novices, I'm always willing to open up a discussion or offer help when it's legitimately asked for. This gives me a chance to not only interact and speak with people, but to give service to my citizens.

    But what I really hate isn't the silence I get greeted most of the time but the backhanded, selfish requests that comes from it. Instead of trying to find information about some aspect of Achaea, I get backbiting and selfish remarks from someone trying to make "a joke" (and not always trying :angry:). If I ask if someone wants something, I do not want to hear the words "free gold/credits" or some other improbable request that I'm not going to fulfill. I'm not going to buy you a ship. I'm not going to go into some risky or time consuming effort for free either. I'm a helpful guy, but I'm offering my services to improve the lives of the citizen and by extension Ashtan. </rant>

    On another note, I feel like a lot of conversation could be generated by someone actually talking about something besides questions or trying to be witty. Plenty of people are vocal when there is something to talk about that interests them. The conversation doesn't always have to be about shifting politics or  differences between the ideologies of Shallam and Targossas, but it has to be something that people are willing to engage in. Some of the "take it to tells" is that the person trying to cut it off has no interest in the conversation and so rather than trying to steer the conversation or interact with others, they shut it down. Biggest problem because of this, as as have been stated before (and if it hasn't, it's been implied) that this tells people that any conversation that isn't "important" is to be dismissed; the community that the channel is suppose to build is stymied instead into newbie questions, party invited because of raids, and asking for stuff like portals. There are conversations that need to be removed from public channels because they are public, and every city has differences and adjustments to this (i.e. "Silence Slave") but there are also conversations that need to be allowed to flourish in order for people to connect with each other and allow the citizens to be comrades and friends, not just strangers with access to a convenient CT command.

    tl;dr Talk on ct without being assholes for the good of everyone.


    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
    Szanthax
  • KhaibitKhaibit Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Dortheron said:
    If anyone in Ashtan knows that when I'm always willing to talk on ct and I often ask a question that's become my motto "Does anyone have any questions or need help with anything?" While this is primarily aimed at novices, I'm always willing to open up a discussion or offer help when it's legitimately asked for. This gives me a chance to not only interact and speak with people, but to give service to my citizens.

    But what I really hate isn't the silence I get greeted most of the time but the backhanded, selfish requests that comes from it. Instead of trying to find information about some aspect of Achaea, I get backbiting and selfish remarks from someone trying to make "a joke" (and not always trying :angry:). If I ask if someone wants something, I do not want to hear the words "free gold/credits" or some other improbable request that I'm not going to fulfill. I'm not going to buy you a ship. I'm not going to go into some risky or time consuming effort for free either. I'm a helpful guy, but I'm offering my services to improve the lives of the citizen and by extension Ashtan. </rant>

    On another note, I feel like a lot of conversation could be generated by someone actually talking about something besides questions or trying to be witty. Plenty of people are vocal when there is something to talk about that interests them. The conversation doesn't always have to be about shifting politics or  differences between the ideologies of Shallam and Targossas, but it has to be something that people are willing to engage in. Some of the "take it to tells" is that the person trying to cut it off has no interest in the conversation and so rather than trying to steer the conversation or interact with others, they shut it down. Biggest problem because of this, as as have been stated before (and if it hasn't, it's been implied) that this tells people that any conversation that isn't "important" is to be dismissed; the community that the channel is suppose to build is stymied instead into newbie questions, party invited because of raids, and asking for stuff like portals. There are conversations that need to be removed from public channels because they are public, and every city has differences and adjustments to this (i.e. "Silence Slave") but there are also conversations that need to be allowed to flourish in order for people to connect with each other and allow the citizens to be comrades and friends, not just strangers with access to a convenient CT command.

    tl;dr Talk on ct without being assholes for the good of everyone.


    Perhaps not using the ct as a novice channel might lessen people's urge to troll you? It's pretty much all you say, on ct (and ht) so it opens you up for mockery. A proper conversation or a less repetative comment might get you less sarcastic responses?


  • ValkynValkyn Member Posts: 733 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2016
    @Dortheron I find actually helping novices means going up and finding them, saying hi, asking what they're up to, offering to take them hunting or shopping or just striking up a conversation is the best.  Often the real newbies don't understand what you might be able to help them with, or are not confident enough to respond to a generic offer.

    I think that kind of repetitive message can also be seen as a grab for attention more than anything, like jumping up and down saying 'hi, I'm here, I'm helping!' rather than just getting in and doing it quietly. Not saying that's what you're doing, but maybe that's the perception.

    If most of the time people don't respond to it, maybe try something else? I'd much rather see varied and colourful offers of help than the exact same phrasing over and over, and it might instigate more of a response.

    MatiasJannaHellen
  • DortheronDortheron Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Khaibit said:
    Dortheron said:
    If anyone in Ashtan knows that when I'm always willing to talk on ct and I often ask a question that's become my motto "Does anyone have any questions or need help with anything?" While this is primarily aimed at novices, I'm always willing to open up a discussion or offer help when it's legitimately asked for. This gives me a chance to not only interact and speak with people, but to give service to my citizens.

    But what I really hate isn't the silence I get greeted most of the time but the backhanded, selfish requests that comes from it. Instead of trying to find information about some aspect of Achaea, I get backbiting and selfish remarks from someone trying to make "a joke" (and not always trying :angry:). If I ask if someone wants something, I do not want to hear the words "free gold/credits" or some other improbable request that I'm not going to fulfill. I'm not going to buy you a ship. I'm not going to go into some risky or time consuming effort for free either. I'm a helpful guy, but I'm offering my services to improve the lives of the citizen and by extension Ashtan. </rant>

    On another note, I feel like a lot of conversation could be generated by someone actually talking about something besides questions or trying to be witty. Plenty of people are vocal when there is something to talk about that interests them. The conversation doesn't always have to be about shifting politics or  differences between the ideologies of Shallam and Targossas, but it has to be something that people are willing to engage in. Some of the "take it to tells" is that the person trying to cut it off has no interest in the conversation and so rather than trying to steer the conversation or interact with others, they shut it down. Biggest problem because of this, as as have been stated before (and if it hasn't, it's been implied) that this tells people that any conversation that isn't "important" is to be dismissed; the community that the channel is suppose to build is stymied instead into newbie questions, party invited because of raids, and asking for stuff like portals. There are conversations that need to be removed from public channels because they are public, and every city has differences and adjustments to this (i.e. "Silence Slave") but there are also conversations that need to be allowed to flourish in order for people to connect with each other and allow the citizens to be comrades and friends, not just strangers with access to a convenient CT command.

    tl;dr Talk on ct without being assholes for the good of everyone.


    Perhaps not using the ct as a novice channel might lessen people's urge to troll you? It's pretty much all you say, on ct (and ht) so it opens you up for mockery. A proper conversation or a less repetative comment might get you less sarcastic responses?
    It's a straight-forward question intended for the youth of the city, as I already stated. This isn't for someone who's been around for a few years and likes to poke the bear out of boredom, but for newbies who might not have heard it before and have genuine questions or legitimately need help. Part of the problem I've heard over the years about Ashtan from young players is that the city "doesn't seem to care" or "is really quiet". How interacting with the youth and trying to get them used to using the city as a place to go to as a resource a bad thing?
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • DortheronDortheron Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2016
    Valkyn said:
    @Dortheron I find actually helping novices means going up and finding them, saying hi, asking what they're up to, offering to take them hunting or shopping or just striking up a conversation is the best.  Often the real newbies don't understand what you might be able to help them with, or are not confident enough to respond to a generic offer.

    I think that kind of repetitive message can also be seen as a grab for attention more than anything, like jumping up and down saying 'hi, I'm here, I'm helping!' rather than just getting in and doing it quietly. Not saying that's what you're doing, but maybe that's the perception.

    If most of the time people don't respond to it, maybe try something else? I'd much rather see varied and colourful offers of help than the exact same phrasing over and over, and it might instigate more of a response.
    I didn't mention it before because this thread is about city channels, not newbie reaction, but I do actually walk up to them and ask about them, try to talk to them and interact with them. And if I can't walk up to them (like they're in Minia), I send them a tell. Maybe I should vary the way I say it (it's not scripted, I still type it out). If you talk to @Piera, @kelara, and a few others you'd find I try to do just that until they're mostly settled and independent.

    Edit: Clarification on the first sentence.
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Since the creation of this thread I've been trying to stimulate some conversation on Ashtan's channel. Unfortunately, it hasn't really seen much improvement (yet). 

    One of the greatest 'fear' of talking on city channel is being made a fool of one's self.. and I think that really just depends on how the overall attitude is. We just need more people to talk, regardless of subject, as long as it is IC. I think with more consistant and widespread effort, the general atmosphere will change. 
    Kelara
  • JonathinJonathin A hole in the groundMember Posts: 2,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    When it comes down to it, you do have to sometimes shut things down before they start because the person making the jokes has a track record of taking it too far. No, it doesn't mean that we should stop everything every time, but the message that nothing is acceptable comes across from leadership when we don't want to publicly draw attention to the fact that said person doesn't really understand where the line has been drawn.

    It's hard to make a blanket statement about channel etiquette when the silencing is only happening when a handful of people start up.

    (Mudlet Clan): Nylian says, "Mosr's on the case. Fix incoming."

    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

    Janna
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,902 @ - Epic Achaean
    ok... 

    sorry @Dortheron , but you are awesome. Keep trying to help the novices and the newbies. Don't let others sarcistic and snide comments get you down or keep you from helping the younglings :) 

    I know its hard not to respond to sarcasim with sacastic remarks but I have faith in you! 

    *damn heathen*



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