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Writ system

TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 3,647 @@ - Legendary Achaean
edited January 2016 in The Golden Dais of Creation
There's been a lot of hoo-ha about skirmishing and shrine conflict lately and I thought I'd take a shot and propose a system that may be of use. I admit I don't indulge in shrine conflict myself so the input and feedback of those who do (and anyone else) is more than welcome.

Problems that prop up with the current system:
-Shrine has dropped before Order members have obtained writs
-People defiling in areas a swift response is impossible (Outer Islands or long wilderness treks)
-Order members are expected to sit on their hands unless in possession of a writ
-Order members must drop whatever interactions they are involved in to defend
-Ignoring whether you hold a writ and using RP reasoning to attack defilers you don't know exactly who was doing the defiling.

Proposed fix : Automatically generated writs

How:
- A writ generated when a person begins defiling a shrine
- The shrine will cool-down for 90 seconds and generate another writ if the person is still defiling
- In an order an individual person does not hold a writ. (probably longer than 90 seconds but that's the current theoretically writ accumulating rate)
- Anyone in the order with a writ on a person my try to claim the writ
- Once a member of the order kills the person named on the writ the writ vanishes
- An order member who makes the writ vanishes gets some sort of nice niceity to be proud of.
       Example : (Order): A cleric says, "Halos has burned the righteous fury of Duecalion into Proficy. There are 4 writs left on Proficy."
-Writs decay after a time (30 RL days?)
- Writs can be passed off one at a time into the champions/assassin boards.

Why?
- Even if a person defiles in an inaccessible place or when noone is online (as we know some really annoying people are want to do) the order can still respond to it.
- Order can respond straight away or at their leisure (so no interruptions to helping novices or RP events)
- Many order members working on one writ stops the awkward juggling about who technically has the right to be involved in the conflict
- Provides a definite list of defilers. No more 'wrong place  wrong time' claims


The point of the changes is to take the emphasis away from defenders having to jump at a moment's notice to defend while attackers can spend a good hour planning their attack and getting prepared. Go ahead and post your constructive critisms and ideas.
Kayeil

Comments

  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2016
    Tahquil said:
    - The shrine will cool-down for 90 seconds and generate another writ if the person is still defiling
    Can you expand on this one a bit? The corpses normally used to defile a shrine (DKs, Sidhe, Unsidhe, etc.) by regular defilers will drop one far faster than ninety seconds. It's closer to 15-20 seconds from full to destroyed (if that - when somebody has a couple of honours mobs to throw into the mix you can drop a shrine in under ten seconds) and you'd be closer to the mark. Given the speed of destruction, I'm not sure how often the cooldown will matter.

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  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,681 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Unsure of what the best solution is, but something definitely needs to change... it is pretty ridiculous how fast shrines drop now. No matter how fast you are it's difficult getting the writ.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 3,647 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Sarathai : 90 seconds was based on the writ generating rate with the current system. With the proposed system even if a team drops the shrine in 10 seconds working together the Order will have at least 1 writ on each person who was involved.

    There would need to be a cool-down of sorts placed on shrines so it's not pumping out a writ a second and at the same time a person can't begin to defile a shrine and be hit with a writ, walk away then come back 2 hours later and continue defiling and have it count as a single attempt.

    I guess the question for putting up a closer theoretical time is how many writs do you think is reasonable to be generated by an attack on a shrine? 1 or 2? Should we only take into account group efforts against shrines or single person efforts?
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 3,647 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also what time should have passed for it to count as a second attempt on the shrine?

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 3,647 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I hadn't considered the perpetuation of conflict due to the defiling of enemy shrines in city.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,052 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    There should be scope for people to get away with defiling, whether that's because there's nobody online to witness, people don't want to drop everything they're currently doing to go witness, or they simply can't get there in time. If you choose to raise in a location you can't quickly travel to then you just have to accept that you're likely going to lose that shrine without being able to get the writ.

    That said, a large part of the problem stems from the bashing/Battlerage changes. Essence costs are much higher but shrines (still) haven't been modified accordingly, and it seems like a lot of people aren't necessarily happy with the way things are right now. For me, personally, the bigger issue is that a lot of people can simply continue to defile even if I respond and get there in time, then run away when they're done. I'd like to see defiling and sanctifying changed to channeled actions where you can't do anything else.

    RohaiHalosAnedhel
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 2,456 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Simplest fix would be to increase the cost of raising / destroying in proportion to increased mob essence values post battlerage

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  • XinnaXinna Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2016
    I've always been in favor of auto-generating writs. The current system leads to cause counting on people who are just defending and hit and run defiling lolz that does not really add anything to the game in my opinion. It creates a lot of needless tension and frustration between factions because individuals who defile cannot be held accountable in an easily understood and agreed upon way. 

    Maybe make it so writs aren't generated unless the shrine has been up for X amount of time to prevent issues of people raising in enemy areas.

    Or, add a hard-cooldown on shrine defiling. Maybe every time you lower the shrine one level, the shrine can't be defiled for 10-15 seconds, so it always takes at least 60 seconds to defile.

    If defiling is meant to be a non-combat exercise, it should go the way of mining assaults and be completely separate from pk, with added mechanics you can use to defend/attack shrines maybe. Having it technically an aggressive action that's defended via pk (and seen this way by everyone) but constantly causing frustrations because of the ease of writ prevention and cause counting vs non-writ holders is not ideal in my opinion.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 3,794 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    The simple fix without a full overhaul is to just up the required essence to defile a shrine. Make it take something like 250,000 essence instead of 90,000 (when I last checked numbers) until a full overhaul can be done.

    This would make it harder for 1 person to drop more than 2 shrines, and even a group would max out at 3 or 4. Right now I can get all of Annwyn and drop 4 shrines by myself in about ~1h 15m between hunting/finding shrine/defile shrine/fine next shrine. I think that's the biggest issue of -this- system, in that the essence costs are very very low for a shrine.

    Edit: Also would give the defenders more time to get to the shrine if it takes 3+ minutes to defile with 1 person. Groups are going to kill shrines quickly regardless, but more often than not a group is looking for a fight and sticks around anyway.

    @Tecton - thoughts?


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  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 1,877 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I like Xinna's idea of auto-writting maybe tempered a little with the writ only lasting 24 hours and having to be collected by order members (maybe that would be unfair on Ouranians though). Another options is lengthening the balance time of offering to defile?
  • GoryllinGoryllin Member Posts: 79 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If we are worried about the number of shrines or some organization building shrines specifically in enemy locations for combat--

    Could we have a law of diminishing returns? A Master Shrine, then the further away or the more shrines you have - the lower the strength of the shrine (or writ system). If the God is a Patron, then they get an extra Master Shrine for each organization they Patron - Thus truly representing their expanded influence.
  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Goryllin at face value, it sounds rather complex and hard to read, mind thinking the idea out a bit more?
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinMember Posts: 2,724 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Goryllin said:
    If we are worried about the number of shrines or some organization building shrines specifically in enemy locations for combat--

    Could we have a law of diminishing returns? A Master Shrine, then the further away or the more shrines you have - the lower the strength of the shrine (or writ system). If the God is a Patron, then they get an extra Master Shrine for each organization they Patron - Thus truly representing their expanded influence.
    I don't think that would help with the current issue. In the end, you'd just be making shrines even weaker. 

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  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    I'd just like to see a willpower cost for defiling to keep raisers and defilers on the same level. Right now we have those 18 year old dragons floating around and they are just tearing up shrines. It's very annoying because most people just don't have that much time to hunt and be around. 
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    Shirszae
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 2,829 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Increase the essence required to raise/defile shrines by 5x :)
    image
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 1,876 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Rangor said:
    Increase the essence required to raise/defile shrines by 5x :)

    It already got boosted by a ton sometime this week (right before we started defiling :anguished: )
  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Kiet Love the ninja reweaves?
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 1,877 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kiet said:
    Rangor said:
    Increase the essence required to raise/defile shrines by 5x :)

    It already got boosted by a ton sometime this week (right before we started defiling :anguished: )
    It did? Damn. What is it now? (Need to know for informational purposes only, honest)
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