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Lock Speed

NellaundraNellaundra Posts: 1,556Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
Alright. I'm actually starting to understand Alchemist, but I keep running into this snag - basically, I can't figure out how to bypass the long startup time of tempering Sanguine up to acceptable levels. This almost doubles my lock time, and I'd love to get a way around it or through it, but I can't see what I'm supposed to do.

And I don't have trans weaponry either, so just jabbing curare is out.
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Comments

  • ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    I'm by no means an expert on alchemist combat, but isn't slower lock time the entire point of having to build up tempers in the first place?

    I mean, isn't that like a serpent saying "I'm tired of having to use hypnosis, how can I just not bother with that nonsense".

    From what I've seen, if it weren't for the build-up momentum, alchemists would be able to lock people in like, a few seconds.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


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      1. NellaundraNellaundra Posts: 1,556Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Mostly it's just in comparison to a faster class, like Shaman. I can lock in 55~ seconds but I just feel like I'm missing a better way to do it.
        image
      2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        edited January 2015

        I mean, a lock == a kill.  What other class can consistently kill in 55 seconds*?  See where I'm going here?

        * assuming your opponent doesn't make rudimentary mistakes.

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


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          1. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            Why sanguine to lock?
          2. KandraKandra Posts: 189Member
            Jovolo said:
            Why sanguine to lock?
            So she can truewrack with paralysis.

            You can wrack paralysis without sanguine, though.
          3. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            edited January 2015
            That's my point. 

            1) You don't need paralysis if you're tempering Choleric, and if they do tree out of the lock then they can't tree again for another 15 seconds, 20 if they have expert diagnoser. 

            2) If you use truewrack to stick any other buffer afflictions (such as clumsiness and sensitivity), then you lower the chance of paralysis even curing them out of the lock in the first place by a significant amount. This makes sticking paralysis less important, especially when you factor in point #1 - Tree is almost useless if you manage to temper Choleric to three or four fluid levels.

            3) Even against fitnessers, if you temper Choleric you're throwing out an almost certain chance to lock them with the passive % chance to block tree tattoo - if they don't manage to fitness in between your shriek/temper choleric/slickness & anorexia truewrack and your impatience/weariness truewrack, which leaves them with a time period of just over two seconds to prevent the lock. Difficult if they're a Monk, or a 2-hander/dual blunt Knight, or a Druid, or a Blademaster that doesn't have a level 2+ band, etc. If they don't have fitness, they essentially have no chance against an Alchemist in its current incarnation. Remember that locking without phlegmatic is only one method to kill, too. If you find you can't lock a fitnesser who cures and reacts perfectly, switch up to an aurify or damage kill. With ease of nausea sticking and a sensitive choleric inundation/educe iron combo, you'll take out a lot of people.
            Dochitha
          4. XinnaXinna Posts: 691Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
            edited February 2015

            As someone who has been playing around with alchemist lately... I can lock -a lot- faster than 55 seconds.

            I agree that tempering sanguine is unnecessary. A number of alchemists seem to be stuck in the mindset that paralysis truewrack is necessary, but must be forgetting that paralysis truewrack was only fairly recently made possible all the time at all (before it was nerfed back to the way it was originally). I don't even have a paralysis truewrack alias on my alchemist.

            I don't think it's even been mentioned just how powerful phlegmatic is, and I fail to understand why it seems to be completely ignored by most alchemists. It's the easiest way to lock and should be the staple, really.

            Truelock is also, as @Jovolo said, completely unnecessary as a kill method. Alchemists have other means of killing. But I'm pretty sure you can lock just about anyone as alchemist anyway, if you want to (probably excepting priests, at least, though).

            If you are an alchemist, are struggling to kill people, and you aren't even using inundate, you're doing something wrong.

          5. NellaundraNellaundra Posts: 1,556Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            Actually, I was just going to let the thread die cause I've been tinkering some. I have a lock that works on non-fitness classes within 14.6 seconds at a fairly high success rate - though part of it is luck based, depending on what kelp decides to cure.

            Working on another one with just phlegmatic and choleric, which I hope to be even faster.
            image
          6. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
            Actually, I was just going to let the thread die cause I've been tinkering some. I have a lock that works on non-fitness classes within 14.6 seconds at a fairly high success rate - though part of it is luck based, depending on what kelp decides to cure.

            Working on another one with just phlegmatic and choleric, which I hope to be even faster.
             Have you tinkered with Expert Diagnose (particularly for Kelp)?  Probably the most underrated mechanic in the game.

            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


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              1. NellaundraNellaundra Posts: 1,556Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                Actually going to trait reset soon to grab it. It seems kind of amazing.
                image
              2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                edited February 2015
                Actually going to trait reset soon to grab it. It seems kind of amazing.

                The main thing that people fail to realize is that it tells you far more than if they have the affliction you check for or not.

                If someone has asthma and clumsiness and eats kelp, and you check for asthma and it's true, you know know that they DO have asthma and that they DO NOT have clumsiness, both with 100% accuracy.  This extends to far more complex and useful strategies, and all other cure types, for those able to use it well (and those with *cough* a certain tracking system).

                It's also great as a balance-free way to check for fake salve applies/pre-apps for limb classes (particularly amazing for limb+aff classes like BM and Knight).

                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                  1. ValentinusValentinus Los Angeles, CAPosts: 31Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
                    At the moment, my fastest lock is roughly 39 seconds if I utilize paralysis.  Not sure how to go about it without, though.

                    Scrub lyfe.


                    I take commissions.
                  2. LockiLocki Posts: 6Member
                    Not sure how locking as an alchemist affects locking times. But as an apostate I can say it is possible to true lock someone without focus in under 13 seconds.  Tested and proven. 39 seconds is approximately 20 stares worth of time. Seems slow and highly unlucky. 
                  3. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    Just the wrong approach
                  4. KitiaraKitiara Posts: 247Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
                    Locki said:
                    Not sure how locking as an alchemist affects locking times. But as an apostate I can say it is possible to true lock someone without focus in under 13 seconds.  Tested and proven. 39 seconds is approximately 20 stares worth of time. Seems slow and highly unlucky. 
                    With the two of us it's like what? 3-4 stares? bwahahahaha
                    "Kit always gets blood everywhere."
                    Medi says, "If kit says to show up somewhere, bring an apron."
                    Medi says, "Rule of thumb."

                    Locki
                  5. LockiLocki Posts: 6Member
                    Kitiara said:
                    Locki said:
                    Not sure how locking as an alchemist affects locking times. But as an apostate I can say it is possible to true lock someone without focus in under 13 seconds.  Tested and proven. 39 seconds is approximately 20 stares worth of time. Seems slow and highly unlucky. 
                    With the two of us it's like what? 3-4 stares? bwahahahaha
                    More like 1 Hypno, 1 stab, and 1 stare. Serpents + Apostates are a force to be reckoned with. Afflicting all five true lock afflictions in 1 attack is possible.
                    Kitiara
                  6. ReisenReisen Posts: 92Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
                    edited September 2016
                    Why not just use phlegmatic? 8 phlegmatic tempers = anorexia+slickness+weariness. Stick asthma on them beforehand, then inundate phlegmatic+truewrack impatience/paralysis. Instant truelock if they're not a dragon/shaman/alchemist, and if they are, just provide the necessary afflictions before you inundate or even just temper choleric.
                    I had a funny thing here. It's gone now.
                  7. CynlaelCynlael Posts: 3,257Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    Sweet holy mother of necro. I don't even think anyone who posted in this thread still even plays, aside from Jovolo occasionally.

                    Kez
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