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So how can I finally become a Dragon?

KenseiKensei Posts: 29Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
edited January 2015 in General Questions
Greetings everyone, been a very long while since I was last around and many changes seem to have taken place. I'm a Blademaster and returned to find out that these changes have completely made my bashing subpar, and my most important goal in Achaea at the moment is (and has been for a very long while) to eventually become a Dragon. BM was great before but I dont feel like it right now, would like to explore something new (whether it is physical or magical class), since the focus of the devs are to push other changes like tradeskills and houses at the moment (no time to waste hoping for some BM bashing love).

But how do I do that most efficiently in the current state of the world? I've looked around and seen that most classes have improved a lot, but is there a couple few that excel at that? I guess efficiency would be the perfect balance between damage output and sustained survivability, or how long you can go at it until you have to rest/regroup? I hear serpents can bash now, knights not sure yet with the changes, etc. I'll be going at it with an Iron elite membership this time around and turning in my lvl 1 band (bye bye Black Wind), also having 166 credits at the side (around 400 total?) and posessing a lvl 1 crit artie. I'm also a human champion, but willing to change to a better race/spec for purely bashing purposes depending on the chosen class.

And on that note, what would you people suggest as the most efficient class-race-trait combo, together with some artie investments that could be allowed by the aforementioned setup? Bard/Priest/SoA-wielding classes? High-dex serpents? Casters with artie collar/robes? S+B, Dual-Blunt, 2H Pala/Runie/Infernal? I'd hate to make some stupid decisions at this critical point and eventually give up once and for all when being so close to the goal (just entered level 86)... I just want to finally reach that point and then be able to enjoy the rest that the game has to offer, really.

Best Answers

  • SenaSena Posts: 3,825Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015 Accepted Answer
    A few months ago there was a huge bashing rebalance, which was meant to make all classes have about the same DPS. Weapon stats being very random though, they weren't so easy to balance, and classes that relied on weapon stats (knights, bard, serpent, priest with an artefact mace, jester with an artefact blackjack) were all far stronger than everyone else. It also meant that almost every class was better off using weaponry to bash, rather than their class bashing attack.

    Now, just a few days ago weapon stats were changed to be static, there's almost no randomness in forging now (just a chance to get an extra 1-3 points in random stats). Because of this, the bashing rebalance can be finished, and the overpowered classes can be brought in line with everyone else. It hasn't happened yet, so weaponry is still usually better for bashing than class abilities and those weapon-using classes (except maybe knights) are still extremely strong, but I would expect the changes to happen soon enough that I wouldn't recommend changing to one of those classes for the insane bashing.

    If you want to pick a class based on the assumption that the balancing will be finished, then it's easier. Assuming that everyone will have nearly the same DPS, all you have to consider is speed (faster attacks are better), defence, utility, and endurance/willpower/mana costs.
    • Top 5 classes in defence (very roughly ordered from best to worst, and counting all knight classes together): Knights, sylvan, magi, monk, alchemist. Blademaster could be right above or below magi in that list because of Mir, but I didn't include that because you have to sacrifice a lot of offence for it.Top 5 classes in attack speed: Monk, shaman, knights (depending on spec), serpent (with high dexterity), blademaster.
    • Top 5 classes in fast travel: Serpent (keep in mind that their travel ability is something anyone can buy as an artefact), occultist, jester, druid, alchemist.
    • Classes with high endurance/willpower costs (in no particular order, and probably not complete): Druid, sentinel, shaman, monk.
    • Then there's also artefacts to consider. All classes (once weapons are balanced) should probably have about the same DPS potential whether they're unartied or fully artied, but the amount of artefacts necessary to reach "fully artied" varies a lot. Most classes (those that need a stat artefact and one weapon/band/knuckles) will cost 3900-4100 credits for full DPS, jesters only need 3500 because blackjacks are cheaper than other weapons, magic classes that use equilibrium will need 4950 (for sash, collar, diadem), dual-wielding knights will cost 5700.

    With all of that in mind, my top 3 choices for bashing classes (assuming that weapons are balanced and DPS is roughly the same for everyone) would be (in no particular order): Runewarden, serpent, sylvan.
    KenseiRangorShirszaeKyriella
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,825Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015 Accepted Answer
    Also, if you already have trans weaponry (or at least high weaponry) right now, stay blademaster and bash in Mir with a forged weapon, until weaponry is rebalanced. That will give you really good defence without the reduced speed or damage (since they only apply to TwoArts attacks, not weaponry), putting you well above most classes for now. Then you can wait and see how things are changed before deciding on a new class/build.
    KenseiRangorSiduri
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Answers

  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,790Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    All that you need to do is to stick with it. Hunt and hunt and hunt even as you feel your mind go numb with despair :persevere:  Also, maybe go Runewarden :neutral_face: 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    PrytheUtianima
  • AddamaAddama Posts: 947Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Go Two Hander or Dual Blunt Dwarf/Human.

    If your only goal is to absolutely crush it up to Dragon, I don't think you'll have any regrets this path.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    ShirszaeKensei
  • SarathaiSarathai Posts: 2,139Member
    Klendathu said:
    Set yourself small but achievable goals. 5% a day, 10% a day, whatever you feel comfortable with. Slow and steady is the way to go, don't go trying to take down all the big mobs, you'll lose more xp than you gain.

    Don't use a starburst.
    Agree to this (never heard the starburst advice before, though). Especially the slow and steady thing.

    Alternately, if pure % isn't your thing, pick somebody five or ten places ahead of you (give or take, depending on the level) on the XP rankings, and aim to pass them by the end of the day. It gives you a nice sense of accomplishment.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    KyriellaPrythe
  • AradorArador Posts: 1,693Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Wiping starburst is how I finally managed to move forward after level 81. You either die from a bad connection, so starburst screws you even more, or you die by taking on something you should not and the speed that things chase now.... Yay double death again. That being said, use server side sipping. Gods, I wish I had it with this mobile connection when I was pushing for dragon.

    AustereShirszaeKenseiValaria
  • KenseiKensei Posts: 29Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Thanks for the info everyone, especially Sena, that was what  I was looking for really. I guess i'll have to decide between serpent/runie if I change, the latter I would assume dual blunt would be better for the sake of more crits. Unfortunately i'm not trans weaponry, only up to parry I think, so that strategy might not be the most viable for me. :frowning: 
    Utianima
  • MicosituMicositu Posts: 31Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    Why isn't bard on this list?

    edit: A bard with max arties is like a demon god blurring through areas and laughing at damage.
    Calypzo
  • KenseiKensei Posts: 29Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Is it so? But I would assume, with only basic arties they probably are not that good. And talking about bards and possibly serpents, how about horkval race? Is it better for that kind of armor with the new changes?
  • AddamaAddama Posts: 947Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Kensei said:
    Is it so? But I would assume, with only basic arties they probably are not that good. And talking about bards and possibly serpents, how about horkval race? Is it better for that kind of armor with the new changes?
    Horkval armour (or specifically, the damage reduction they get) only equates to, I think, Ringmail.  @Sena can give the specifics, but if your class can wear something like Splintmail or Fullplate, you're not going to get much out of Horkval.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • KenseiKensei Posts: 29Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited January 2015
    Hey again, just a small update here... I decided to stay Blademaster for RP reasons and my character's background, and I will not focus 100% only bashing cause I remembered the other good stuff in Achaea. :smile: But oh my, how bad has Blademaster bashing become? I need like 5 attacks in Arash to kill an Actar valley goat, when I've heard that knights need like 2 for that and have double, if not more, tankiness!

    So I'm sitting on about 250 credits I've been keeping around, I have a Level 1 Band and a Crit Pendant level 1. I am a human Champion with Nimble, Robust and Lucky traits.  I am also trans survival, avoidance, class skills and fitness (yeah, endurance drain used to be insane back then, haven't tested it now). I also have weaponry parry and boar tattoos.

    So, any advice on what I should change (e.g., go another race and str focus?) of the above, or add to them (any arties/skills?), so I can be somewhat more efficient at bashing now? I can't see any changes to Blademasters coming any time soon with Renaissance, Tradeskills and Knights...
  • GamdenGamden Posts: 225Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I have 1 Band, lvl 1 Crit and Robust,Aim to kill Traits. 
    I chose Aim to kill because I already have the Crit Pendant, Although the crits really only started coming at around lvl 92/93
    Bashing is not awesome but I manage, I chose Horkval purely on decay on Armour that I dont have to worry about. (I am dormant some times of the year)Still tanky enough for me.

    I'm Still ways out to Dragon but still climbing steadily. The secret like mentioned earlier , is small steps.Also the right stance. I use Mir in Crowded rooms, and thyr or Doya other times.

  • ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited January 2015

    Having bashed to dragons twice (technically enough exp for 4-5 times), I'd suggest this (on top of the other good advice submitted so far):

    Bash the Underworld and Annwyn.  It's amazing experience/time, amazing gold/time, and as they are open PK, they will force you to develop your pvp survival skills*, which I strongly recommend for new/intermediate players.  It will also provide far more opportunity to interact with other players than the benign, boring, typically empty "normal" bashing areas.

    One of the other interesting perks of this strategy is that instead of just looking at bashing with the lens of a mathematician (like our beloved @Sena), you can look at it through the lens of it's overall strengths, which in the UW or Annwyn, are no longer irrelevant to bashing.  Serpents are now amazing because you can evade/warp away from pursuers, occultists/apostates become great because they can smoke-bomb out of ganks, monks become great bashers because of Mindnet, Radiance, and other great abilities, and so on.

    In my experience, both the playerbase and IRE have both been very terrible at assessing and balancing bashing, because they focus way too much on DPS/crits, and rarely focus on other seriously important factors such as utility, escape, detection, and the BIGGEST thing ignored (nudge nudge, IRE), damage mitigation.

    Classes that have abundant damage mitigation might do less DPS, but can easily bash bigger, tougherhigher level NPCs, thus earning them more gold/experience per time than a class that wouldn't be able to survive in that area.  A serpent who can warp 100 rooms away in 2 seconds can dramatically increase their gold/experience per time, in a similar fashion, but again, that's rarely "calculated" into bashing power.

    So my recommendation is this:  pick a class that you think you'll have fun with, learn it, and master its own flavor of bashing style, utility, and etc.  While on average you're going to find that bashing DPS is important, it is certainly not what you should be basing your class decision on, especially at lower level ranges and/or without artefacts.

    Hopefully whoever is doing this DPS "balancing" will figure this out too, and stop trying to make everyone's DPS equal - it's just silly.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        NimSenaUtianima
      1. SenaSena Posts: 3,825Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Is damage that depends on weapon stats going to be brought down to match everyone else in the near future?
      2. TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsPosts: 2,485Administrator @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Sena said:
        Is damage that depends on weapon stats going to be brought down to match everyone else in the near future?
        Yes, we're going to be looking at that this coming week.
      3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        edited January 2015
        Tecton said:
        Oh, definitely @Ernam‌ - this is just phase 1 of the balancing, getting everything in a format where additional changes can be made easily. We're going to revisit it further in the very near future and add some more factors into the equations.
        Tecton said:
        Sena said:
        Is damage that depends on weapon stats going to be brought down to match everyone else in the near future?
        Yes, we're going to be looking at that this coming week.

        Aha!  Knights should enjoy simultaneously having the highest damage mitigation and highest DPS out there, while they can!

        edit:  I'm not being facetious.  I'm literally, personally enjoying this, while I still can (despite calling for it to be fixed =P).

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
          1. SenaSena Posts: 3,825Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            I liked bashing a knight alt up to level 50 for testing, and realising I could handle the same areas as a level 45-50 runewarden more easily than as a level 80 alchemist (I was still slightly slower overall though because of the lack of criticals).
          2. KenseiKensei Posts: 29Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
            @Ernam‌ I am 86 level Blademaster and I love the class overall so I'm definitely sticking with it. I've forgotten everything about combat, though, so I'm gonna have to revisit that. That and the right stances. But I'm sticking with it, especially now that there seems to be some hope! :smiley: 

            @Sena‌ I really love critical hits. At my level they seem to save me a lot of time, and probably a death or three since I am still quite rusty, so that's why I have the pendant and I am human. Although maybe Horkval/Dwarf change for the resistances with a strength focus would be a bit better for hunting vs the crits.

            I do not know what artifacts to buy but I'm thinking I should either upgrade band (could help in combat too) or buy some tanky rings/belts etc...
          3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
            edited January 2015
            If you know that you aren't going to be getting into pvp I might recommend a level 1 health set (bracelet, sip ring, belt) first, and possibly a level 1 band, crit pendant, and wings, in that order.

            It shifts slightly if you're going to get into combat (it's better to focus on things that benefit both pve and pvp), so less focus on max health, more focus on HPS (sip ring, regen ring) and offense, and definitely skip the crit pendant until later on.

            I would also recommend being wary of class artefacts unless you're 100% sure you are sticking with BM.  It's also good to mention that SoA would be on that list if you weren't a BM.

            As for bashing, that's an art all of itself.  Focus on both speed and efficiency, and keep an eye out for things that improve these, even more, like runes and sips of lucky.

            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                  Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
              1. TalysinTalysin Posts: 575Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
                I always liked that certain classes had better bashing.
              2. DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,266Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
                I remember the days when people thought Serpent bashing was sub-par.

                It was never sub-par. Ever.
                Utianima
              3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                Daeir said:
                I remember the days when people thought Serpent bashing was sub-par.

                It was never sub-par. Ever.

                There was a time when it was sub-par for people who weren't using exploits like WoT garrote or horkval.  I still remember the day I bought mine and just jaw-dropped at how ridiculously faster I could kill things.

                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                  1. SenaSena Posts: 3,825Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    edited January 2015
                    There was a time when it was subpar because of the players, not the mechanics. For a while, serpent was the most misinformation-filled class outside of pre-autoclass occultists (and at least there the misinformation wasn't being taught to occultist newbies).

                    A lot of people in serpent houses were teaching novices that 15 lessons in fitness will make a significant difference (at least two serpent houses actually required novices to learn 15 fitness) and that no whip stats mattered for garrote.

                    In addition to (and because of) that, there weren't a lot of great whips being forged, which did make serpents mechanically subpar but was still because of players.
                    Shirszae
                  2. MathonwyMathonwy Posts: 754Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    Oh snap, that reminds me of serpent class channel, which was the lulziest/griefiest thing ever.
                    Saeva said:
                    If Mathonwy is 2006 I wish 2007 had never come.
                    Xenomorph said:
                    heh. Mathowned.
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                  3. KenseiKensei Posts: 29Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
                    Well, I officially give up on bashing to dragon - it's like, impossible with the current state of the BM. I'll just focus on RP and finally learning combat instead, unless I give it one last try with race/trait change, STR-focused Horkval/Xoran or something like that. I'm not changing class so that's my last resort! :smiley: 

                    Just a quick question, though: what are those sips of lucky? Can't remember them from before I went into hiatus... :open_mouth: 

                  4. ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,790Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    edited February 2015
                    Noooo, whatever you do, don't go horkval. Don't become a filthy insect :(

                    Also, sips of lucky augment your chances to deliver critical hits. Not entirely sure of by how much, though.

                    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

                    image

                    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

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