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Anyone ever get ignored for a RP IC problem?

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  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,752 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Addama said:
    Oh, that's funny, I guess it was you and not Dajio. 

    I just woke up and was like "Jinsun, he's the reasonable one, Dajio, he's the evil one.  Must've been Dajio."

    Anyway.  You said "Pay up."  I've never interacted with you before.  You waited two seconds after the game ended.  You're literally the first and last person to ever do that.  Do you think I was going to forget to declare a winner?  No.  You just wanted to rub it in that you bet on Santar.  Good job, you bet on the guy that literally everybody else bet on.

    How do I RP that?  By not declaring the book?  I can be issued for that.  Or by declaring somebody else to rob you of your winnings?  That's a shrubbable offense.  It's not like I can hire on you for being a dick.  No, my only option was to give you your money, and you still had to be a cock about it.

    You often wonder aloud why people assume you're an insensitive ass-clown, and this is why.
    All I said was Pay up, heh. I'm sorry that that destroyed your ego?
    image
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Addama said:
    How do I RP that?  By not declaring the book?  I can be issued for that.  Or by declaring somebody else to rob you of your winnings?  That's a shrubbable offense.  It's not like I can hire on you for being a dick.  No, my only option was to give you your money, and you still had to be a cock about it.
    option #2: t Jinsun HOLY CRAP GIVE ME HALF A MINUTE, LIKE FIFTY OTHER PEOPLE BET ON THAT GUY!

    option #3: t Jinsun If you're impatient with me again, you'll find your money in your lungs.

    option #4: t Jinsun I know you think I'm as fast at paying out as you are in bed, but alas not.
    SyriBlujixapugAchimrstHalos
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    All I said was Pay up, heh. I'm sorry that that destroyed your ego?
    I mean, you could consider that your first RP interaction with somebody - unless it's theft or justified killing - might be more open-ended instead of only giving me the option to be a dick back, which I didn't really feel like doing at the time.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,752 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Addama said:
    All I said was Pay up, heh. I'm sorry that that destroyed your ego?
    I mean, you could consider that your first RP interaction with somebody - unless it's theft or justified killing - might be more open-ended instead of only giving me the option to be a dick back, which I didn't really feel like doing at the time.
    Look man, from what I've seen on forums, you can be pretty reasonable at times and a bit jumpy and presumptive at times. I get that way, too. I'm not sure if your thoughts on the simple words Pay up are colored by what others have told you or that you know I'm a murderer from Ashtan. Jinsun is a very short, straightforward person. He's not going to say "Greetings, I do see that you were the holder of a book that I recently won in, I'll await payment at your convenience thenceforth." It would make literally no sense for him to approach a Targossian who owes him money with polite, genial greetings. If you want to RP, we'll RP, but it should make sense.
    image
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Look, I'm not about to lecture you about your RP choices, since you've played significantly longer than I have and your choices have worked out for you, but you made a choice that didn't particularly endear you to me for the reasons I listed.  You have the right to do that, and I have a right to not interact with you after that.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2014
    Siduri said:
    Nim said:
    Does that mean IGNORE is the new anti-theft?
    Nope. Had Dajio on ignore after he kept throwing homophobic slang at me, over and over, whenever I showed up to defend the city and the shrines against Mhaldorians. Later, I was hanging with Nila in Thera, had selfishness down (my bad, really), and when he showed up to steal from her, and hit selfishness, he turned to me and ran away with something.

    I issued over this, and I lost, because being thieved on is apparently an IC repercussion of him being a thief and me hanging in the same place as his target.
    I don't advise considering IGNORE as an antitheft technique.

    --However--, my issue against him was upheld the time where he backstabbed me and tried to kill me while I was defiling a Sartan shrine, because he's not Mhaldorian/Sartai, and thus didn't count as IC repercussion.
    I believe this is actually decided on a case-by-case basis. XXXXX (a person) had me ignored (no clue why; he was the one constantly screaming homophobic, nasty slurs at me) and when I attacked him (he was a Mark) I was told NO by admin and that "Ignore means he wants nothing more to do with you." But he's a Mark, I interjected. But he's the one threatening to kill my family (and attempting it), I explained. But he's the one constantly appraising and hypnotising me. NO, I was told. In the end, his breach of his own damn ignore cost him a couple weeks of play time. 

    Like anything, ignore is not perfect. The Issue system so often used in conjunction with it is not perfect. The people who monitor those issues are not perfect. Etc. That's why it is important to at least try to use it with a huge heaping of common sense. 
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aalm said:
    wouldn't you get bored and wander off if Frodo was headed to Mt. Doom to have a tea party with Sauron?
    Would be awesome in its own way.

    Like if everything else was the same, but like, "sup, I see you have my ring, have some tea," says the corrupted spirit of the east. And then they discuss politics. "Yeah, Gondor just made him king, like, they don't even know if he's qualified, they just do it. You would think after a few centuries, their government would have evolved a bit!"
    AalmCaoimhaenSiduri
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,752 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cynder said:
    Then can you both stop derailing and bring this to PM? Jeez. I don't think I've seen a singe thread on topic for weeks.

    I personally just shrug my shoulders if someone is ignored or ignoring me. You'll get in trouble for trying to contact then to make ammends, or you're wasting valuable time. Just get over it and move on. No issue with the system.
    The topic: Anyone ever get ignored for a RP IC problem?




    My complaint: that someone in this thread did just that. So sorry that I mentioned a pertinent example. As we've quoted and chatted on forums, I don't really think it's trying to get around the ignore. We clearly can communicate at least somewhat calmly here, and I'm not trying to contact him ICly. 
    image
    CaoimhaenCynder
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,200 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No, my e-dick is bigger. 
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    CaoimhaenShara
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    There's a huge difference between being Evil, Chaotic, and an asshole.

    The vast majority of those who roleplay Evil or Chaos are actually civil when they're not trying to kill or rob you (and some of them are still civil while doing that).  And I'm not a dick to Evil/Chaotic players, I still start my tells with "Greetings" or "Hail" and thanked Proficy for buying my bridle.  There is a baseline of politeness that is sensible.  And if some people don't want to ascribe to that baseline, well, that's fine, but I don't particularly want to interact with those people.  And I don't have to.  There's plenty of Ashtanis and Mhaldorians who aren't out to make my experience worse.  I can save my energy for those people.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    BluefCaoimhaenAodfionn
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aalm said:
    That said, there are also definitely legitimate times when a person is stretching or exceeding the boundaries of propriety IC to trash you while pretending it was "just their character." There are definite times when a person is completely and repeatedly ruining your day, and enjoying it, while pretending it's just role-playing, and that's when you do need to Snub them. I am not talking about all of Ashtan or all of Mhaldor or whatnot. Most of the people I can think of doing this were not on Team Red at all.
    I like going back and forth between serious and not-so-serious posts apparently.

    I think the above is a very, very blurred line. After all, take, like, any Mhaldorian. There's a whole culture of subjugation, murder, and just general S&M stuff to be found there. That doesn't mean they actually want to do that IRL, but clearly they enjoy roleplaying it out, or else they'd probably not be in the city.

    Personally, I love when Nim gets angry, because she's so ineffectual at it, but like, she's like this dog that has a really silly bark but her fangs actually are kinda sharp, but she's on a leash known as Cyrene, so she usually doesn't actually bite people. There's totally a chance I'll enjoy an interaction that will just ruin someone's day somehow, especially if she were to, like, go to another city for some reason or otherwise lose the leash.

    Will I enjoy it? Probably, or else I wouldn't do it. Did I just ruin your day? Apparently. Would I have done it if I knew it would've ruined your day? Probably not. Will I ask OOCly if you're OK with it in advance? Probably not, a lot of people like spontaneity in their roleplay here, so that might ruin your day instead!

    tl;dr: If someone's ruining your day, tell them so, it may work wonders.
  • CaoimhaenCaoimhaen TargossasMember Posts: 800 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2014
    @Addama. There Are all kinds of different ways to rp. I personally have enjoyed @Jinsun 's rp in the past. Yes. You may not like the way he rps. But you shouldn't act like it isn't viable. As everyone had stated, Achaea is built on conflict. Don't interact with him if you can help it. Jinsun is not the same person as he is icly as far as I can tell, so maybe you should lay off? We all have our own ways and characters. Saying he can't pay an ass hole is a bit unrealistic as there are all types of people irl and ig. Perhaps everyone should calm down a little. 

    Ureel
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Caoimhaen said:
    @Addama. There Are all kinds of different ways to rp. I personally have enjoyed @Jinsun 's rp in the past. Yes. You may not like the way he rps. But you shouldn't act like it isn't viable. As everyone had stated, Achaea is built on conflict. Don't interest with him if you can help it. Justin is bit the same person as he is icly as far as I can tell, so may you should lay off? We all have our own ways and characters. Saying he can't pay an ass hole is a bit unrealistic as there are all types of people irl and ig. Perhaps everyone should calm down a little. 
    I never said he couldn't play that kind of character.  I just said that I didn't want to interact with that kind of character.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    Aodfionn
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2014
    Addama said:
    There's a huge difference between being Evil, Chaotic, and an asshole.

    The vast majority of those who roleplay Evil or Chaos are actually civil when they're not trying to kill or rob you (and some of them are still civil while doing that).  And I'm not a dick to Evil/Chaotic players, I still start my tells with "Greetings" or "Hail" and thanked Proficy for buying my bridle.  There is a baseline of politeness that is sensible.  And if some people don't want to ascribe to that baseline, well, that's fine, but I don't particularly want to interact with those people.  And I don't have to.  There's plenty of Ashtanis and Mhaldorians who aren't out to make my experience worse.  I can save my energy for those people.
    I agree with the first part; however, the notion that anyone in any opposing faction should be polite to you...is...I can't even...what? 

    Players who are from those factions - or any other because believe me, I've encountered some rude ass people from Targ too - who want to roleplay a certain demeanor, usually aloof, emotionally detached, etc. are certainly more polite than others. But it's a huge leap from that to "There is a baseline of politeness that is sensible." Sensible to who?

    A gleam-addicted, occultist who believes the world is ending is not going to bother saying please and thank you anymore than a Targossian who thinks your are just a fly on the manure pile working against their version of a Good in Achaea will. I would personally much rather have people be true to their roleplayed selves than attempt to ascribe to any basis that has them stepping outside of their character to tell me hello in a way that would be considered 'polite.' Does that mean they can/should scream profanity in my ear or use slurs of any kind?

    No. But if a gleam addict entered my book and won, I'd expect some level of urgency on his part to get his money (so he could go out and buy more gleam with it). When Bluef is snubbed in public (and believe me it happens frequently) people usually send me a tell or msg letting me know their rude behavior is toward her not me and explain why. This furthers our interactions because I can appreciate the effort they're putting into hating her and actually makes me want to interact with them more in an attempt to turn around their character's opinion of her, if possible. 
    NimMannimar
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Aalm: If they're really such a problem player, and you can prove it, I would argue that this is a reason not to just IGNORE someone for basically the opposite of what I said earlier.

    The admins probably do not want super problem players in their game, but if you just ignore them and hope they'll go away, said super problem players will remain.

    Of course, I will admit that a lot of people can mistakenly identify someone as being a huge, huge problem when it's really just bad circumstances, they had a bad day, whatever else, but if I give you the benefit of the doubt and such, then I dunno, it sounds like you saw a huge problem and went "nope, someone else's problem."

    Which is fine, it's a game, but it's a largely player-run game. Even a lot of the admins could still be classified as players in a sense.
    AalmPrythe
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,629 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I got ignored by a "new" player when I took an RP approach to warning them about hunting in Enverren Castle. Lot of times it's used as a "I'm going to make sure I get the last word" tool. I don't think it should in any way indemnify a player against reprucussions when they're actively putting themselves into situations which reasonably warrant a response from the person they've ignored (e.g. if you have an Order member ignored, then go defiled one of the shrines they're responsible for, and that person shows up, you shouldn't expect -not- to get attacked).



    Bluef
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    Chiam said:

    On topic: They don't have to be polite, but they can. There's always room for a polite but deadly villain.
    Just as there's always room for the completely asshole of a deadly villain. Different strokes.



    ShirszaeNimBluef
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2014
    @Addama‌ ;

    What you described was completely innocuous and perfectly in-character. You initiated contact (by soliciting bets) and he said one kinda sorta snippy thing. That is not, by any possible stretch of the imagination, grounds for IGNORE.

    IGNORE is for harassment. It is not for blacklisting people you don't feel like interacting with. It isn't just a meaningless little thing to be used whenever you decide you don't like someone's character. It is not the same as blocking someone on Skype - being IGNOREd is an OOC mechanic that constrains the in-character actions the other person can take in the game.

    What you are describing is exactly the problem this thread (and countless complaints about snub/ignore in the past) have been about. IGNORE is supposed to be used for serious, primarily OOC things. Frankly, what you described using it for should probably be issueable.

    ...

    As for me, I've only been snubbed once or twice. The vast majority of the time, if I think I might be bugging someone OOCly, I'll send an OOC tell or message just to make sure things are okay and people are clear that this is only IC. A little bit of discretion and some communication go a long way.
    NimMelodieAddamaJovoloZengo
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    It doesn't prevent Jinsun from attacking me if he has cause to (and there's plenty of times when he'd have cause to).  You seem to have misinterpreted the purpose of my ignore on Jinsun, so I'll make it clear: I don't want to receive tells from Jinsun.  That's it.  I shouldn't have to if I don't want to. 

    If he finds me and wants to rob me, that's fine.  If he wants to attack me when he has reason to, that's also fine.  If he just wants to shoot verbal diarrhea my way, no thanks.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    ShirszaeTaelBluefZengo
  • MelodieMelodie MhaldorMember Posts: 4,474 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2014
    I've been snubbed/ignored by three people. Two of them was involved in a particularly drama-filled fest that happened to me years ago (and that I've thankfully grown up from). It was definitely very IC/OOC mixed, and while the IGNOREs themselves were a bit ridculious, I was not going to cause a stink over it. Let sleeping dogs lie, etc.

    The other was from me ignoring them first and they figured out that if I have them ignored, they couldn't cause me grief - and was an entirely different issue that ended up being the only issue I've ever done against someone in 9~ years. Definitely not going to talk about that here, though.

    I once ignored someone because they were purposefully baiting/insulting me on constantly on an OOC clan to try and piss me off. While normally I can take a good ribbing like anyone else, I was in a bad way and they continued despite me telling them to stop and leave me be, so I ignored them for about 3-4 irl days. After that, I removed it, for which they seemed grateful and never tried to do to me (on purpose) ever again, at least not to the same degree.

    While people do use it frivolously, I've always found that the best way to approach this is to simply teach people about why IGNORE exists, and what it should and shouldn't be used for, and use a more social influence to have people use it properly. There will always be bad cases, of course, because there's always petty/silly people. But such can be minimized, and for the sake of true OOC harassment (something I've experienced), it is best to leave IGNOREs, and moreover issues, in place and accessible without having to "prove yourself" that you've been offended.

    Edit: Also, speaking as someone who gets a bit sensitive sometimes (and which I actively try to deal with and improve), some of y'all need a thicker skin, and/or perhaps try to send an OOC message to say you don't appreciate the interaction and asking if they would stop. IGNORE should always, always always always, only be a last resort if all other avenues prove to be useless, not a "I don't like you so go away" button. Gotta put on your big boy/girl panties, folks.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    NimTaelHalosJukilian
  • DalranDalran Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited December 2014
    EDIT: Wait, not sure if what I posted was okay info for me to share to the public lol.
  • JonathinJonathin A deep pit of hunger and despairMember Posts: 3,094 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2014
    I used to snub people that would not stop talking even after I made it abundantly clear that the information that needed to be relayed with the original comment had been received. This was especially true when my middle-of-the-road combat (back then) would kill some up-and-comer through sheer luck or something equally chancy and they would just fly into ragemode.

    I would unsnub after an hour or so to see if they calmed down and then we would usually have a rematch which I would lose.

    ETA: I've been snubbed by a few people over the years though, usually for reasons of which I am unaware and usually by people I've never spoken to or even seen in game.

    (Mudlet Clan): Nylian says, "Mosr's on the case. Fix incoming."

    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

    Dalran
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2014
    @Addama: We understand you just fine. The point people are trying to make is that while you think we're misinterpreting the purpose of your ignore, you are misinterpreting the purpose of IGNORE itself, at least as it's been historically seen by the admin and as it's still seen by most of the playerbase.
    Addama said:
    I shouldn't have to if I don't want to.  

    This is the part where people disagree with you - it's also the part where the admin have (at least in the past) been pretty clear - snub/ignore is not just an "I don't feel like talking to you" button. Or at least it didn't used to be. Admittedly, they removed the cautionary bits that used to be in the helpfile and the command, but the impression they gave was that this was because they were afraid the stigma associated with it was preventing people from using it to stop actual harassment, not because they wanted people to just use it whenever someone says "Pay up" after they win a bet.

    Because snubbing people has consequences. If someone blocks you on Skype, that just means you can't talk to them. But blocking someone in a big, player-driven roleplaying game is not the same thing. This is why you have to give a reason. This is why the help file says "Being ignored means the other person doesn't want anything further to do with you, and you're better off just letting it drop at that.", which does largely preclude stealing from you or attacking you (and people have been punished for doing that to people who have snubbed them in the past).

    Having the power to tell someone that, despite you being involved in the world and the game, they aren't allowed to interact with you in return (effectively rendering your impact on the world immune to their own), is not something that should be taken as lightly as you seem to have taken it. And that is what IGNORE does, even if you wish it did something else like somehow rendered you able to interact, but somehow deaf or something (though the degree to which someone can meaningfully interact without being able to speak is already pretty questionable). I suppose you can disagree and insist that it should be seen as reasonable to ignore people for minor, IC reasons, but that was the whole point of this thread. That's the reason people are disagreeing with you, not because we've somehow misinterpreted the quite clear reason you snubbed him.

    Ignore is an OOC tool. Using it because someone (an enemy even) was rude you ICly should be strongly discouraged. If someone is bugging you OOCly with their IC behaviour, send an OOC tell or something. IGNORE should not be your immediate, go-to solution when someone says literally two words to you, ICly, that you found aggravating.

    IGNORE is telling HR that you don't want someone in the company to talk to you anymore. It isn't just blocking a random phone number on your cell phone.
    BluefNim
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited December 2014
    No, @Tael, I am explicitly saying that Jinsun has every right to do whatever he would otherwise do to me, as an enemy of my city, as though I weren't ignoring him, but I don't want to receive his tells.

    I just have no interest in receiving them, regardless of what you interpret the purpose of ignore to be.

    This is not eliminating his ability to attack me.  You cannot spin it that way.

    E: And for chrissake, stop making analogies that apply to real-life situations because this is a goddamn text adventure.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    ShirszaeBluefTael
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,776 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2014
    Addama said:
    No, Tael, I am explicitly saying that Jinsun has every right to do whatever he would otherwise do to me, as an enemy of my city, as though I weren't ignoring him, but I don't want to receive his tells.
    Then suggest a new mechanic that simply blocks tells from someone (or even asking Jinsun OOCly not to speak to you, which would likely be kind of childish and dickish but still better than ignore), because that's a very clear misuse of ignore, in my opinion. It doesn't just block tells, it blocks nearly all roleplay and most other interaction (often including theft and PK). And even if you personally wouldn't mind being attacked, that's still what ignoring someone does, despite what the help file says.

    Ignore is all or nothing, ignoring someone just because you don't feel like talking to them is using it far too lightly.
    CaoimhaenHalosBluef
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