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Blademaster Buff/nerf Discussion.

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  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Remove Evade, we already have Leap and Bound. No biggie.

    Re-work Shadow to be an enter-room effect so it is an option to not hit totems/runes and still be able to enter the room "stealthily". Can only be used when a target is adjacent, which will kill the entire "sneak around during the raids" ability now, which honestly is fine.

    Give us the ability to SHOOT.

    Fair?



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Tael
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No shoot.
    TaelNim
  • ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited November 2014

    Already explained why free Shoot would be a little ridic.  Insane hindrance + meteor damage stack would be virtually unstoppable.  Hamstring + pommel/sternum already kills pretty much anyone without arties.

    Throw in an arm/leg break on it and you could pretty much abandon affliction combat in 90% of fights.  (Half of BMs already do)

    Would also make the only counter to cheezedick legs break/impaleslash setups (spamming shield) out of the question.

    Sure this can be purchased with artie bow, but there are artefacts to counter that artefact.  Shouldn't be free.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited November 2014
        Ernam said:

        Already explained why free Shoot would be a little ridic.  Insane hindrance + meteor damage stack would be virtually unstoppable.  Hamstring + pommel/sternum already kills pretty much anyone without arties.

        Throw in an arm/leg break on it and you could pretty much abandon affliction combat in 90% of fights.  (Half of BMs already do)

        The class was never meant to be a mini serp afaik. Only with the recent hypochondria changes did BM's get the ability to truelock without a legbreak/ice infuse to force a disrupt.

        Saying that hamstring is any more effective at room hindrance than occie tentacles is inaccurate. How would a BM hamstring/meteor spam be any different than an occie doing warp+hound+star? At least with hamstring, you can move all you want, albeit at a reduced movement speed.

        Edit: So you are saying the main way to kill as the class is considered "cheesedick"? Also, how is shielding a viable counter versus a BM? If you shield on me, I will raze and impale you for a free twist or Impaleslash. Shielding is not a viable counter to BM offense, if they know what they are doing.

        Giving the BM the ability to shoot, won't be that big of a difference imo. I have to use balance to shoot or meteor you, is easily noticeable that it is happening, and can be countered very effectively by walking indoors. Saying meteors on a BM is any more OP than meteors on any other class is asinine.



        You hug Aurora compassionately.
        Tael
      2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        edited November 2014

        Because "moving all you want" is pointless when the BM can chase, balanceless.

        You effectively lock someone in your room for the entire duration of hamstring, as far as momentum is concerned, assuming they can't get to a totem.

        RE: Occultist comparision - it wouldn't be that different.  Occie star/hound/warp kills a ton of people.  Just like BM would.  The big difference is that once you get away from occie, you can move freely to avoid the meteor range or imminent warps.  With BM you'd be crippled even after getting out of the room, which would make chasing to continue the damage stack much, much easier.

        Also, occie's can't quad break in 2.5 seconds.


        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
          1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
            edited November 2014

            The BM can't chase balanceless if you wait to walk on the hamstring immediately after a balance use (such as meteor). Assuming a 3s balance, you can be 3 rooms away before I even get balance. Assuming a non-mhun, non-armband, you would be able to move another room away before I get to the original room you were in.

            Honestly, hamstring is not a death sentence. Just because you don't think it wise to try to walk away doesn't mean it isn't feasible.

            The same argument for knights applies to BM. If I do all the work to prep all 6 of your limbs, and you don't get away in that time or kill me before it happens, is it not also fair to assume that the BM should win that fight?

            BM being able to quad break in that time is only OP if the BM gets to that point, which is not easy to do.

            If you stand around and let a BM quadbreak you, then you deserve to die when there are a myriad of ways to not get quadbroke in the manner you are talking about.



            You hug Aurora compassionately.
            Tael
          2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

            I can think of about 20 things that are smarter to do with 3-4 seconds of balance than trying to outrun a BM with hamstring when you're getting meteor stacked with limbs prepped.

            Just saying.

            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                  Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
              1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean

                Also, did you know that flying then walking while in the air bypasses hamstring?

                BM meteors, you walk east and fly. You have effectively escaped me, without me being able to chase as quick as you are making it out to be.



                You hug Aurora compassionately.
              2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

                Did you know that leg breaks and arm breaks stop that?  See: Everything I said above.

                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                    Atalkez
                  1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    edited November 2014

                    I can't break your arms, keep hamstring up, meteor you, impaleslash you, and legbreak you in 2 seconds.

                    Take your math skills and figure it out. Hamstring is not a death sentence, it is only a death sentence if you don't try to leave. Hamstring, fly. I leaphigh/break arms, well that is ineffective since you are still flying. If I fly to follow, you can walk away. If I do prone, you can fly/walk again before I get balance to land/attack.



                    You hug Aurora compassionately.
                  2. AddamaAddama Posts: 947Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                    If there's one thing that BM does need, it's raid utility.
                    ~Kresslack's obsession~
                    Tael
                  3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

                    So if we do anything other than fly/run for the duration of hamstring, we're dead?

                    Seems balanced.

                    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                        AddamaAtalkez
                      1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
                        edited November 2014

                        The entire point was that hamstring is not a death sentence, and is not inescapable as you try to make it out to be.

                        Again, just because you "can think of 20 other things to do" than run, that is on you. Running is very effective counter measure, and is built into the game on a mechanic level to be a viable counter to kill setups.

                        Also, sounds a lot like Inquisition doesn't it? I can run away for the duration, or I can use metagamey tactics (mana/health prio swapping) to try to subvert its' effectiveness. I'll choose running every time.

                        Edit: In all seriousness, I've given you a viable counter to our offense. I've conceded to losing Evade, yet you still complain that <insert another common occurance here> is still unbalanced. Honestly at this point, it really just seems like a "if Ernam can't beat it, lets get it nerfed" tactic. There is a reason you aren't as good as some of the people that we all know of. This is it. Stop complaining about every small thing, and figure out HOW to beat it. Fly can fuck up a BM just like it can an Occie. How many times have you heard occies complaing about RoF? Not everything in the game needs to be perfectly counterable without moving. If you want to stand in room and go ham without moving, then idk what you think Achaea combat is.



                        You hug Aurora compassionately.
                      2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                        edited November 2014

                        Proper curing / hindrance / mana conservation is not "metagaing".  It's 101 combat, that I teach to novices.

                        And I don't have to argue the Shoot thing, it'd never make it past the test server.

                        I tried explaining how to counter Inquisition (pretty flipping easy for a class that can instantly sip/manatrans for 70% max mana), but you dismissed it as e-peening.

                        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                          1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean

                            Actually I agreed that I don't use manatrans enough.

                            Good job on reading comprehension though, +10



                            You hug Aurora compassionately.
                          2. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                            Your dislike for each other is making you look foolish. This entire page is full of random nonsense comparisons and assertions. Wtf guys
                            Atalkez
                          3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                            edited November 2014
                            Atalkez said:

                            <rant>


                            I never said hamstring was OP.  Ever.  I simply stated that giving free bows (and thus meteor stacks) to BM would be easy mode kills for a class that can already out-DPS unartied fighters without bothering to use 95% of your class skills.

                            Don't put word in my mouths, stop taking constructive criticism as insults, and stop responding to rational arguments with this stupid "If Ernam can't beat it it's OP" bullshit.  I offered up a perfectly valid point which you've yet to respond to with anything other than childishness.

                            Only thing I regret is wasting time trying to help you, both in game and here.  Not a mistake I'll make again.

                            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                                  Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                              1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
                                edited November 2014
                                Ernam said:

                                So if we do anything other than fly/run for the duration of hamstring, we're dead?

                                Seems balanced.
                                You are right. I'm done arguing with you.



                                You hug Aurora compassionately.
                              2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                                edited November 2014

                                Giving Blademasters bows would be fine if you got rid of Sternum.  You keep the same burst DPS (actually a bit more, but only for 7-10 second bursts), and gain the LoS / raid value you want.

                                Otherwise it's just too much DPS.

                                Sternum, however, is pretty important for BM, which is why I don't think it's a good idea.

                                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                                    Nim
                                  1. TaelTael Posts: 1,197Member @ - Epic Achaean
                                    Which is why bows that can't fire meteors is a perfectly fine solution that makes everyone happy. It gives them something to do during ranged raids. That's all I want. Literally anything to do at all. It doesn't even have to be good.

                                    Anything.

                                    That should not be so much to ask.
                                  2. KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,578Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                                    BMs are not the only class to not have ranged attacks by default. Get an artefact bow if it's that much of a problem

                                    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
                                  3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

                                    Oh boy  :s

                                    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                                          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                                      1. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                                        They aren't going to get SHOOT from any logical standpoint. It's a horrible idea. I don't think anyone is opposed to giving them a certain viable ranged capability if someone can think of an interesting idea. I don't think they need it at all with their superior melee strength and totem navigation, but as long as it isn't as strong as shoot it should be ok.
                                      2. TaelTael Posts: 1,197Member @ - Epic Achaean
                                        Klendathu said:
                                        BMs are not the only class to not have ranged attacks by default. Get an artefact bow if it's that much of a problem
                                        Someone has not been reading this thread (though at this point I can't really blame you).
                                      3. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
                                        Jovolo said:
                                        They aren't going to get SHOOT from any logical standpoint. It's a horrible idea. I don't think anyone is opposed to giving them a certain viable ranged capability if someone can think of an interesting idea. I don't think they need it at all with their superior melee strength and totem navigation, but as long as it isn't as strong as shoot it should be ok.

                                        What totem navigation if they lose Evade?


                                        You hug Aurora compassionately.
                                      4. AddamaAddama Posts: 947Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                                        Klendathu said:
                                        BMs are not the only class to not have ranged attacks by default. Get an artefact bow if it's that much of a problem
                                        I said raid utility.  Forestals have groves, Priests have rites, Bards have harms, Magi have vibes, Apostates have gravehands. 

                                        At the moment, they're the only class in Achaea that can only participate in raid combat by being in the same room as an opponent and hitting them.  Or, as you said, blowing hundreds of credits on an artefact bow.
                                        ~Kresslack's obsession~
                                        Tael
                                      5. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

                                        I take it the fact that they can evade safely through totems and block beckon isn't being counted as raid utility.

                                        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                                              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                                          1. AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
                                            Ernam said:

                                            I take it the fact that they can evade safely through totems and block beckon isn't being counted as raid utility.

                                            At this point, I believe the conversation is pertaining to after Evade is taken.

                                            Blocking is hardly raid utility. I can easily summon my mount and block and dismount when the melee starts.



                                            You hug Aurora compassionately.
                                            Tael
                                          2. AddamaAddama Posts: 947Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                                            Ernam said:

                                            I take it the fact that they can evade safely through totems and block beckon isn't being counted as raid utility.
                                            Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that only useful if they have an earring?
                                            ~Kresslack's obsession~
                                          3. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                                            You are wrong. It's incredibly useful.
                                            ErnamTael
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