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Shaman Changes when are they coming?

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  • AlaricAlaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 2014
    Retracting my comment. Sorry bad night at work

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    People who don't really play the class do probably think that not having to upkeep swiftcurse or worry about an EQ cost would be desirable. But no one was complaining about either of those things (that I know of). 

    Any shaman who had the pendant already didn't really need to worry about upkeeping swiftcurse - Mine used to stay up for 20s. I could pull off more curses (and blighted curses at that) than I can now.

    Anyone who has ever played shaman much also knew that the EQ cost wasn't long at all when you were doubling swiftcurse to keep it up (down to 2s from 4s standard and even less than that for shamans with EQ-reducing artefacts). In other words, keeping up swiftcurse wasn't a pain in anyone's ass. 

    Would it be nice not to have to keep putting swiftcurse up? Yes. But wait, I still do. It's not a totally passive defense that stays up forever. The EQ loss may not be as much, but I still have to put it back up - and more frequently now truth be told. Plus the trade off (not being able to blight curses using swiftcurse) pretty much cancels that bonus out completely for me. I can't get over these three facts:
    1. We used to be able to swiftcurse 1 blighted curse every second (every .8s) and now we can't.
    2. We used to be able to swiftcurse nearly 20 blighted curses with a Level 2 pendant and now the most I could send through was 13 regular curses. 
    3. We now have to use three different syntaxes (curse, blight, swiftcurse) for one simple skillset, which seems to over complicate the skillset unnecessarily.
    @Austere can you break your take on this down for me - How do you see this being a benefit, especially to raid combat specifically? 

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,629 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You don't actively play your class. You aren't a fighter. You have never been good at combat as any class, especially shaman.

    This was a large buff and it's not our fault if you can't comprehend that. 

    MorsulJovoloDartegaBluef
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 1,849 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    One fashion throttle alone was a big buff. Honestly, if you have any class that can deliver quick afflictions on your side,  you should be able to kill anyone on a rush now. The fact you don't have to constantly try to keepup swift now means much quicker reaction times to a rush.  No long do you have to worry about cursing half speed if you don't have it up.  You know it is there.  You don't have to worry about using your first attack to get ready to attack or constantly slowing your group down before they rush.  "Hey guys,  let me swift before you move" would get you laughed at.  Decisions are made quickly, which is why not everyone can lead a raid, and no one likes being left behind.  Blight nerf does suck,  but for group combat,  you really don't need it. You just need a badass monk who whores telepathy. Sorry for ramble,  trying to break it down. .

    Seperate question: Is throttle effected by collar and int?  
    AlaricPraxides
  • AlaricAlaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 2014
    Ok things calmed down at work and I got some thinking done. The no blight nerf hurts because now it's slightly harder to sneak in afflictions. The new way swiftcurse works is good in a way but it makes you more reliant on your other skillsets to lock a person down enough that smashing them with unhidden afflictions are still going to be effective.  Like swiftcurse then start fashioning run away prop totem smash with cursed then do the vodun thing and eat people. .. could work. Also like the above said it does work better in raids cause you don't have to hold people up to still be an annoying curse slinger. It also let's you bust out max speed curses after they hit your totem for some added tomfoolery. 

    Over all it may not be as bad as it seems it just might make us old timers relearn a few things


    **God dang phones and auto correct**
    ***also note I am not really a combatant.  I'm more of a number crunching theorist so i could and likely am wrong about things.***

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
  • SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    keeping swiftcurse up was probably one of the most frustrating things about shaman combat. Having to try and pair everything ideally with your swiftcurse blights alongside vodun was pretty annoying, double swiftcurse, mangle etc, then re-swiftcurse to ensure you can get the required blights in before the timer run out was annoying.

    This is a very, very good change for shaman. The problem that people are imagining with the change to blighted swiftcurse is that people are still going via the basis of "I need to blight swiftcurse to outpace healing and maybe stack for at tzantza" You can still blight any powerful curse you need into your prep, and I can think of four different variations where non blighted curses after a blight are actually very useful.

    Sure, it may close a section of just whoring blight to get a cheap tzantza, but when paired with abilities you currently have, this isn't a gross change.

    You also need to take into account this isn't the only change coming for Shaman, these are the classleads. You may find that there are abilities coming for shaman that will make these changes make "sense", in the sense that you lost the ability to afflict at 1~ second blighted.

    No more blight/curse para into tzantza, but also no more having to re-up swiftcurse when going for X tactic and having it slow your whole offense.

    My verdict:
    Sucks to lose blighted swiftcurse, but good change overall for the direction shaman is going and doesn't actually damage its 1v1 or group potential.
    PraxidesMorsulAlaricLumBluef
  • AlaricAlaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @seftin pretty much sums up what I was attempting to say

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
    Achimrst
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I happen to agree that the new swiftcurse makes up for the blight change. Although I wish they would hurry with Runelore changes!
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Austere said:
     The fact you don't have to constantly try to keepup swift now means much quicker reaction times to a rush.    
    True. I get that this aids its raid utility but when they're offering 100% refunds for artefacts that also means something has changed drastically.

    While you have more control over swiftcurse, swiftcurse itself doesn't last as long now. Example: You have to put it back up every 10-15 seconds instead of every 20-22 seconds (under the old configuration). And then there's the loss of blights, which I disagree as being 'made up' by throttle or anything else (we had already lost illusion in vodun as a strategy - where's the 'make up' for that?). 

    That said, I do like throttle. It was a strategy before and it's an even better one now. Also the way the eq was reworked is nice (down from 2s to 1s if it's up and down from 4s to 2s if it's not) but otherwise you're actually putting swiftcurse back up more often now than before. That's the bottom line. You're just able to control when you do so a bit more. Managing swiftcurse wasn't a problem for anyone actually playing the class, but I could see how the ACC would think this is omgsomuchbetter from a group combat standpoint.

    No idea whether throttle is impacted by collar/int. That's a great question though. 
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember Posts: 5,184 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    It is.

    Also you gotta calm your tits down all over the forums. They acknowledged a new skillset so obviously these changes were to lay the groundwork for those changes.


    MorsulAlaskarBluefAntreus
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I just wish they had left blight alone until those changes. I mean it was a great defense, but I can see how it can be OP offensively.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 5,637 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You guys gonna wet yourselves at the new skill. Hoo boy.
    :pleased::pleased:
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    You guys gonna wet yourselves at the new skill. Hoo boy.
    In fear, excitement, or from dying?
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,629 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    You guys gonna wet yourselves at the new skill. Hoo boy.
    Are you sure? I mean, Dunn and I are pretty much wetting ourselves, but with the way the people in this thread talked I'm expecting a 12 page rant.

  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,511 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Daeir said:
    You guys gonna wet yourselves at the new skill. Hoo boy.
    Are you sure? I mean, Dunn and I are pretty much wetting ourselves, but with the way the people in this thread talked I'm expecting a 12 page rant.
    Do you guys already know what the new changes are, or just expecting it'll be good because of who is behind it? Not doubting you,  just curious.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Is the Trans ability called "Thriller"?
    Alaric
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Kayeil said:
    Cooper said:
    Daeir said:
    You guys gonna wet yourselves at the new skill. Hoo boy.
    Are you sure? I mean, Dunn and I are pretty much wetting ourselves, but with the way the people in this thread talked I'm expecting a 12 page rant.
    Do you guys already know what the new changes are, or just expecting it'll be good because of who is behind it? Not doubting you,  just curious.
    It's looking pretty fantastic. I don't know how much information we're allowed to share, but the Trans ability uses basically the power of hate to reanimate a dead NPC as a juju zombie, which you can give basic orders like 'stop', 'attack', and 'horde'. If you use the last one it goes roaming and attempts to kill whatever NPCs it encounters, and they rise as juju zombies too, and they can turn more NPCs into juju zombies, and so on. This is awesome but it crashed the testing realm like 6 times in an hour.

    A lot of the other abilities are based around a special mask. You buy a base mask from this NPC called Mychael's, and different abilities involve customising the way it looks with paint, and fabric, and feathers, and sequins and glitter and stuff. And then you wear it and try to intimidate people into forging a pact with you, and you can try to fool them somehow with a ruse, or else demand a reward to leave them alone for one year.
    I was reading this thread walking down a hallway at work on my phone. I stopped mid-gait and gasped (loudly in that OMG kind of way), and I'm pretty sure everyone thought I just found out my cat has cancer or that my apartment building burned down or something. I wanted to login, cry and moan, slash Bluef's clothes, pour dirt on her head, etc. But then I realized that not even IRE would create something so utterly unrelated (actually completely contrary) to every iota shaman-related RP that has ever happened.

    Note to self: Take everything Blujixapug writes with a grain of salt (or a shot of whiskey). Also no more reading Achaea forums at work. 
    AzelayAchimrstAntreus
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Bluef said:
    Kayeil said:
    Cooper said:
    Daeir said:
    You guys gonna wet yourselves at the new skill. Hoo boy.
    Are you sure? I mean, Dunn and I are pretty much wetting ourselves, but with the way the people in this thread talked I'm expecting a 12 page rant.
    Do you guys already know what the new changes are, or just expecting it'll be good because of who is behind it? Not doubting you,  just curious.
    It's looking pretty fantastic. I don't know how much information we're allowed to share, but the Trans ability uses basically the power of hate to reanimate a dead NPC as a juju zombie, which you can give basic orders like 'stop', 'attack', and 'horde'. If you use the last one it goes roaming and attempts to kill whatever NPCs it encounters, and they rise as juju zombies too, and they can turn more NPCs into juju zombies, and so on. This is awesome but it crashed the testing realm like 6 times in an hour.

    A lot of the other abilities are based around a special mask. You buy a base mask from this NPC called Mychael's, and different abilities involve customising the way it looks with paint, and fabric, and feathers, and sequins and glitter and stuff. And then you wear it and try to intimidate people into forging a pact with you, and you can try to fool them somehow with a ruse, or else demand a reward to leave them alone for one year.
    I was reading this thread walking down a hallway at work on my phone. I stopped mid-gait and gasped (loudly in that OMG kind of way), and I'm pretty sure everyone thought I just found out my cat has cancer or that my apartment building burned down or something. I wanted to login, cry and moan, slash Bluef's clothes, pour dirt on her head, etc. But then I realized that not even IRE would create something so utterly unrelated (actually completely contrary) to every iota shaman-related RP that has ever happened.

    Note to self: Take everything Blujixapug writes with a grain of salt (or a shot of whiskey). Also no more reading Achaea forums at work. 
    It's been written in the forums @Bluef it's canon now. ALL PRAISE THE PVP GODS, WORSHIP THEIR HOLY NAMES!
    Bluef
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