Ship Commscreen Select

Jules

I'd like to cut down on the chatter while maintaining access to relevant channels, as I see fit.  I'd like to be able to toggle the commscreen on a per channel basis - all channels, to include tells from the mainland, all clan and org channels.

Dragonknight

Sounds like you want to TELLSOFF/TELLSON, CLTOFF/CLTON, HTOFF/HTON, CTOFF/CTON...etc.

Jules

The commscreen makes you invisible to the mainland (and vice versa), and I want that included.  TELLSOFF etc... is great, but can give the wrong impression, which may be why commscreen was developed in the first place (otherwise yes, you would just TELLSOFF etc... I suppose).  

There are times when it's nice to be pretty much cut off from the mainland, but I'd like to still hear everything on Mariner's in real time, for example. 

Kresslack

Jules said:

The commscreen makes you invisible to the mainland (and vice versa), and I want that included.  TELLSOFF etc... is great, but can give the wrong impression, which may be why commscreen was developed in the first place (otherwise yes, you would just TELLSOFF etc... I suppose).  

There are times when it's nice to be pretty much cut off from the mainland, but I'd like to still hear everything on Mariner's in real time, for example. 

Commscreen is all or nothing, and I like it that way. It doesn't make sense to have commscreen up for everything but just one channel. Have it up and use it, or turn off everything but that one channel. I'm hoping this isn't just a suggestion towards the convenience of being able to turn off everything but one channel, so you can snub the rest, just so don't have to go through the motions of TELLS OFF, CTOFF, HTOFF, CLTOFF, etc.

TELLSOFF doesn't give the wrong impression, because iirc, it doesn't notify anyone with any actual message that they can't send the tell due to you having TELLSOFF, it just doesn't send it. Therefore, they can conclude you are either in a place where you cannot accept tells, or you do not wish to. 

Jules

I haven't found commscreen's all or nothing design useful.  In fact, if you have a good use for it, please tell me.  As it is now, commscreen makes my most important shipborne SA clan (Mariner's) far less useful, so I rarely if ever put commscreen up.  

The problem with simply turning off the other channels is that it makes you look like you're just ignoring everyone, when in reality you're frantically turning through chops or if you're lucky, chugging through open water far at sea, and even though you can try to chug to a harbour and token, it's really not the same as coming home from bashing.  It just isn't.  I'd say this sense of obligation is especially true of city and house channels, whereas if you had commscreen up this wouldn't be a problem.  With the option above, I'd actually be able to use commscreen in a nuanced way, so I could be invisible to most of the world, but be able to hear someone say "Herald of the Void east of Clockwork" in real time.  If people sitting around for hours shut off from the world is a problem, I'd also be willing to have the toggle option only be usable while the ship is in motion, and for relatively short stops (i.e. not for fishing, not that I have anything against fishermen per se), although that would probably just make it harder to implement.    

I guess the question would be, what is the point of commscreen right now, and why would anyone want to use it for anything other than sitting on their ship in a harbour doing "stuff"?  

There's also a possible pirate utility to the way commscreen works now (in that almost no one probably uses it much), though I'm not sure if it's at all significant or not, or whether it's a pro or con overall.  

Jules

Interestingly, Army ignores the commscreen.  I doubt it's a feature, but I guess it could be.  

Trevize

Kresslack said:

TELLSOFF doesn't give the wrong impression, because iirc, it doesn't notify anyone with any actual message that they can't send the tell due to you having TELLSOFF, it just doesn't send it. Therefore, they can conclude you are either in a place where you cannot accept tells, or you do not wish to. 

There's also CONFIG TELLSOFFMSG if you feel the need to explain yourself.

Jules

I'm thinking more of people getting this impression:  "why aren't these people who show up in cwho returning from wherever they are and forming up at CC"?  They're probably not going to actually say anything to you.

But for the moment let's say that's not a problem at all.  Does commscreen have any meaningful utility if that is the case?  Meaningful enough to be relatively high in command?  What is that utility?

Nellaundra

I like using it for private communications. Plus, I like being not bothered if I'm just on to fish or something.

Dragonknight

It's usefulness, is that Captain that is commanding the ship can eliminate the distractions of his crew and have them focus on the task at hand. Manning their stations, not chatting it up with some Sireni back at the inn.

Jules

Nellaundra said:

I like using it for private communications. Plus, I like being not bothered if I'm just on to fish or something.

This really is something you can do with the various "channel off" commands though, especially as you're not in a city.  

Dragonknight said:

It's usefulness, is that Captain that is commanding the ship can eliminate the distractions of his crew and have them focus on the task at hand. Manning their stations, not chatting it up with some Sireni back at the inn.

Those Sireni, always pulling you back in - and those distracting warnings from other seafarers that Kinilan just pulled out of harbour   

Kinilan

Rawr!

People have a serious hate-on for commscreen. I remember when I explained to Nulaye what it did and she wanted to make using it illegal for Mhaldorians. Not sure how those people would react to a change like this but aside from coder time I don't see a reason NOT to.

Commscreen used to be for when you were out sailing and just couldn't make it back to something on shore. So you had commscreen up, did your thing and nobody gave you shit for not taking care of that novice ot hopping right tio raid defence or whatever else just NEEDED to be done in the eyes of some lubber that took issue with you not playing the way THEY wanted. But with the change to island and ship communications commscreen just doesn't have the same functionality. You can still disappear sure, but you don't get the same sort of benefit so sure, change it to something a bit more useful.

That said, Mariners Guild logs our ship movements and locations, you could just readlog if that's the only sort of thing you want to keep an eye out for.  

Jules

We try (to document what you guys are up to as we see it), but a lot of real time stuff goes over channel, in large part because it's up to the moment SA, but also because there's really only a few people who can log (something I bet the leaders would be willing to at least consider changing, although it hasn't been a huge deal).

Whatever Tecton does with this, it's nice someone understood pretty much exactly what I'm getting at here.  Like most things, the world won't end if they don't make this more useful, but it sure would be nice.  

Jules

In the meantime, one could commscreen up and make it a point to check clan history every so often (since that seems to be fixed).  

Santar

Disagree completely with this. The feature is perfect and fine as is.

Kyrra

Can check channel history with commscreen up as well.

Jules

Right, that's the interim solution I'd suggested just before Santar's post, as history at sea/on land seems to have been fixed.  It's less than ideal, because you're not hearing about threats as they develop, but unless the threat happens to be quite close to you, if you check with some regularity, you would be able to react.  

Kresslack

Jules said:

Interestingly, Army ignores the commscreen.  I doubt it's a feature, but I guess it could be.  

Army channel is still relatively new, so that's probably why.

As far as a good reason for Commscreen as it is now, a lot of people get a lot of tells and channel messages, and when you're out at sea, sometimes it can be very distracting. Some people sail to get away from all that noise, and others don't want to be distracted by it while sailing.

Jules

Couldn't you just turn those channels off?    

But seriously, commscreen effectively removes you from view, with the social benefits that I (and Kinilan, if that helps) described in previous posts - at least while you're actually sailing.  I'd originally hoped to avoid discussing that aspect, because it's a pretty nuanced point, and I felt people might go round and round on it.   

With that in mind, the only problem with commscreen is that it's a single kill switch that blocks all communication from land (except Army at the moment) with no option to retain the channels you deem useful as a captain.  You lose some situational awareness (even you do as I suggested above and periodically check history).  

Kresslack

Jules said:

Couldn't you just turn those channels off?     

In retrospect, can't you just turn off the ones you don't want to hear while out to sea?    

With that in mind, the only problem with commscreen is that it's a single kill switch that blocks all communication from land (except Army at the moment) with no option to retain the channels you deem useful as a captain.  You lose some situational awareness (even you do as I suggested above and periodically check history). 

I believe that's the entire (intentional) purpose of the skill itself. You put Commscreen up, and it effectively blocks communication as if you weren't accessible. I attribute the Army channel still being available with Commscreen up as an oversight considering how relatively new it still is.

Jules

Jules said:

But seriously, commscreen effectively removes you from view, with the social benefits that I (and Kinilan, if that helps) described in previous posts - at least while you're actually sailing.  I'd originally hoped to avoid discussing that aspect, because it's a pretty nuanced point, and I felt people might go round and round on it.   

Kresslack

If you're going to make a suggestion such as this, I think you should be prepared to discuss it thoroughly, whether you'd hope to avoid a part of it which basically questions why your suggestion is needed beyond your own personal convenience. 

Jules

It's really clear you aren't reading my posts.  I'm a little surprised you didn't read Kinilan's though.  

Klendathu

I'm going to chime in here as someone who hasn't ever used commscreen, although I might if it keeps you completely invisible when on a ship. I think it's fine as is. You either get the benefits of being invisible with the cost of having all channels off, or you have the benefits of certain channels on with the cost of being visible.

Jules

Klendathu said:

I'm going to chime in here as someone who hasn't ever used commscreen, although I might if it keeps you completely invisible when on a ship. I think it's fine as is. You either get the benefits of being invisible with the cost of having all channels off, or you have the benefits of certain channels on with the cost of being visible.

Commscreen definitely doesn't make you invisible to hostile ships, if that's what your're wondering.  

What it does do is remove you from your own org who lists (cwho/hwho/clwho), whose land-bound members might otherwise wonder why you're not forming up along with everyone right now to respond to a raid, or taking that newbie orientation.  They're probably not going to send you a TELL (although it sounds like they would in Mhaldor), they're just going to see you in those various org who lists and think, "oh, that slacker Klendathu".  If they see that you have channels off, they'll probably judge you even more harshly.  So, in that sense, commscreen makes you "invisible".  I hope that isn't something that needs some sort of combat balancing cost.  It's purely social expectation/obligation management with your own org.  

Right now commscreen has exactly that sort of cost (as if it were some amazing stealth ability that hides your ship from pirates), in that you lose the ability to hear land-based reports from the game's High Clan for seafaring in real time as a threat develops.  There are probably other clans people find useful as well.  As I noted above, a partial solution is to use history now that it's fixed, but yes, if I use commscreen as it is now (so my citymates won't think I'm willfully ignoring them), I won't get any land-based reports in real time.  Land-based reports often let me know that pirates just pulled out of or into harbour - particularly relevant as a favorite pirate tactic is blocking harbours.  I also want to hear from land-based Clan members if someone gets attacked and ship rescues before giving their report on land.  I also wouldn't be able to give reports in real time.  Commscreen as it is works against probably the biggest seafaring clan in the game, and that's not cool.  In fact, I'd even be happy if Pirates of Meropis and Mariner's Guild were made the only exceptions to commscreen up.  It would probably be easier to code, and is really all I want.   

Klendathu

Jules said:

Commscreen definitely doesn't make you invisible to hostile ships, if that's what your're wondering. 

No, just making you invisible to your org lists is what I thought, very useful when one needs some quiet time.

As for the rest of your post, I reiterate that you can either be invisible, or you can have clans, you can't have both, you have to weigh up what's more important.

Jules

Wait, what?  So why are you treating this as if it's some uber combat ability that needs a counterbalance?

Jules

New, concise proposal for admin:  

Just make Pirates of Meropis and Mariner's Guild ignore commscreen up (and maybe fix the army channel, which does ignore commscreen up).  

Nellaundra

Or just turn the orgs you don't wanna listen to off. I'm fine with it being one way or the other, because if you're being an isolationist hermit you should have the consequences of that - no information.

Jules

Commscreen's purpose shouldn't be to make you an isolationist hermit, it should be used by captains who are actually sailing.  Captains want to hear from other captains.  

Nellaundra

What's the point of it beyond hiding? I use it when I'm doing one of two things:

1) Fishing by myself, when I don't want to deal with people

2) Going out on a trade deal or something and don't want my existence known to the world at large.

It removes you from WHO. It's basically a gem and a veil. Those are the point of it.