Crystalism Changes

2

Comments

  • Tahquil said:
    Might be coincidence but Achaea's lagging has cleared up for me (granted it might just be a lucky few hours).

    Don't care about the change, but this has absolutely nothing to do with lag at all. I'm pretty sure facets in a Master Crystal were literally just an integer value, not actual crystal objects, and even if they were, you would not be able to notice a change in lag.
  • I feel the single best change to come from this is no more lame-ass GATHER YE SOME PEARLS BITCHES contests once the MCs reach their laughably low limits. Hopefully more folks will be able to come up with useful events/contests/whatever now that there's one less mechanical crutch to lean on.
  • This change doesn't necessarily affect me in any way but I can't help but feel this was a great opportunity to stage an awesome event.  I think, if anything, the administration should use these types of changes and dress it up a bit for the players, get them involved somewhat.  
  • @Bonko

    Time to bash ALL the oysters on a loop, eh?


  • I think this will, eventually, have been a good change, though I understand and respect the perspective a few of you are bringing to the discussion and I understand we might not see eye-to-eye on the matter.

    I've never been crazy about mechanics that inspire any sort of deep-seated emotional attachment (over story), in part because it's probably the most static of the game's elements and in part because unlike the story, which changes in dynamic, if subtle, ways, things like the Master Crystal either get bigger or they get raided. There's nothing to do with facets except sell them past a certain point; perhaps people could've done something interesting, storyline-wise, involving using facets as a means to an end for events, but 1.) I think you'd only be able to use that a couple of times ever before it very quickly became terribly cliched, and 2.) you would still have the same problems you see now: wherever the story demands sacrificing all those hours of RL work, people start to balk because the expectation exists already that they're entitled to the fruits of their very tedious labor.

    That people were ever encouraged to contribute all those hours to something as boring and static as a Master Crystal with zero dynamic roleplay attached, zero dynamic roleplay expected, and frankly very limited roleplay opportunity is more of a problem than changing it.

    We've also seen where those sorts of peculiar attachments can go and it's never healthy (e.g., the forums after a Master Crystal raid, while entertaining to some, historically haven't really been conducive to the betterment of the community or the elevation of the tone of discussion that happens here), and while I'm not trying to assign responsibility, I do think the Hoarders-esque nature of what it means to have a MC probably wasn't helping.
    Saeva said:
    If Mathonwy is 2006 I wish 2007 had never come.
    Xenomorph said:
    heh. Mathowned.
    Message #12872 Sent by Jurixe
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  • See That's part of it though. The impression has always been (at least in OUR house) That the MC isn't some static thing..that if it came down to it, it COULD be used in some way.  It's why its been so important, something our House has always cherished.  And maybe we were mistaken in that train of thought, but it made the MC that much more important to who we are.  Its always been held as a great source of power..and building it up to the millions of facets we had was a huge thing for our House.  I know some of you think its stupid, but for the Kindred it was a big deal.  And when ti comes to role-playing...something is a big deal..if you make it a big deal.

    I understand overall why they are doing it...and it sucks regardless. But to take something that in some houses has played an essential role, has been used as a RP focus...and just say hey, we don't like this...its gone. (oh and by the way, we're only telling you about it in an ooc fashion in the announce post) Is a big slap in the face.  Now, not only does it create more work as in the update of dozens of scrolls, rules, privileges...But I have to somehow find a way to reconcile it with the House because of the importance it has played over the years....do I really just say..." Well guys, it sucks. They're gone. Thanks for 300 years of hard work though!" ? 

    If it had to be done..I get that. But it could have been done in a way that made sense.  Some of the ideas suggested would have worked...or even let the House Leaders know so that we could at least come up with something ourselves.  To throw it at us....and pretend like it has no effect on the in game aspect of our role-play just kind of sucks...

     

  • Silas said:
    This has been a growing trend I've noticed. I'm sure everybody appreciates that things are moving faster in general, but losing a touch of speed for the immersive elements of events can only be a good thing in a text game.

    I also tend to agree that dumping on your playerbase without any prior warning is a poor idea. Not sure why it continues to happen, really.
    Guys I think you are all missing the deep roleplaying that is going on here.

    Clearly this is just an extension of the storyline started when Lorielan refused to come to Shallam's aid. Now She has taken the next step and stolen everyone's horded facets. The final step will be Her glorious return to Her original personality as a big bad.

    What a plot twist!
  • MishgulMishgul Trondheim, Norway

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • Jarrod said:
    If your House is attached to the MC as an ever-increasing number, then that is not a conducive RP front.
    I can sort of understand it being a decent pride point in RP honestly.  One magi house being able to say their MC is the largest/most powerful/most potent or whatever is a pretty fair deal honestly.  I think resetting the scores there (and they are scores to some people) suddenly without any acknowledgement of the old ones does severely suck.  Leaving the high values and letting them decay or awarding houses in some way for their facets lost would go a long way to alleviate those issues.  It just feels like a lack of sensitivity to house concerns at this stage though. 

    The changes themselves are pretty helpful, though I'm not entirely sure why a hard cap needs to exist in the first place. 

  • Jarrod said:
    Saidie said:
    But to take something that in some houses has played an essential role, has been used as a RP focus...and just say hey, we don't like this...its gone.
    This is not what happened. Your RP is not attached to the number on the Master Crystal, it is attached to the Master Crystal. You still have it. The only thing that changed is how facets are tracked on it, and they were reset.

    If your House is truly attached to the MC as an RP device, absolutely nothing changed. If your House is attached to the MC as an ever-increasing number, then that is not a conducive RP front.
    Because to US..it has always been implied that the larger our MC the more powerful we are. When Shallam Sank...and theirs went under...there was action under the water surrounding it.. things that implied it was kind of a ticking bomb..something that could have been used by...the tritons..or whoever as a weapon.  Maybe some us read that all completely wrong. But as a lifelong Magi House...the larger our Crystal was...it felt like a weapon..something we'd cherished..had been fanning for years to help grow. Like our own secret weapon..that we had no idea how to use, but deep down thought that if it ever came down to it. We could.
    There was also...a storyline somewhere..about an MC being large enough that if it were to blow it would destroy a whole city...or more.  I mean. It's moot now.  But it was more than just a number.

     

  • If @Rispok is right about the 500 million gold estimate, and the admins are totally cool with deleting tens of thousands of credits in terms of value with no warning or regard... does that mean veils can go next? :3
  • What's the point of having a bigass crystal if you're not gonna use it in all honesty?
    The fact that it doesn't get destroyed by one raiding group and you have extras in the case of war.   I'm happy if this means no more raids, but I really dislike only one facet per pearl.  I also don't completely get the allocation: is that per IG month or is it for a lifetime?  If it's per IG month and the person isn't putting pearls in... then the MC will be drained quickly.  I admit some of my dislike comes from confusion.

  • Lucine said:
    I don't know what this is but I don't like it! I don't like it one bit!

  • I can fully understand some of the perspectives I mean bigger crystal better house, it was a pride thing.

    I am just sad that the Tritons for a long time were trying to get to the Shallam Crystal, and we figured to weaponize it, but I guess in my head I will pretend that .. the Garden saw the danger and withdrew power. Sure it's not as elaborate as some awesome event that would take a lot of time for Team Tecton (I like it I am using it) to put together but it fits my RP at least.

    I figure the patrons of each of the houses could probably give some kind of "This is what is what, it had to be done. The End." just to keep some continuity and justification. and dear me the refining spree if there was a one year warning, would have been madness.
  • Lucine said:
    I'm happy if this means no more raids, but I really dislike only one facet per pearl.  I also don't completely get the allocation: is that per IG month or is it for a lifetime?  If it's per IG month and the person isn't putting pearls in... then the MC will be drained quickly.  I admit some of my dislike comes from confusion.
    The 1 facet per pearl is for the house-wide, communal pool. The person folding the pearl also gets more than 1 facet all for themselves. Allocating facets from the communal pool to a house member simply increases their personal pool. It's a one-time move. Say Lucine has 1,000 facets right now, and the house has 100,000. The house leader allocates 1,000 facets to Lucine. Now Lucine has 2,000 facets and the house has 99,000. You can also give your personal facets to another house member (but not to the communal pool, as far as I can see).
  • TectonTecton The Garden of the Gods
    Lucine said:
    What's the point of having a bigass crystal if you're not gonna use it in all honesty?
    The fact that it doesn't get destroyed by one raiding group and you have extras in the case of war.   I'm happy if this means no more raids, but I really dislike only one facet per pearl.  I also don't completely get the allocation: is that per IG month or is it for a lifetime?  If it's per IG month and the person isn't putting pearls in... then the MC will be drained quickly.  I admit some of my dislike comes from confusion.
    Bob refines a pearl at his MC, he gets 7 facets to refine in his personal pool. His house's communal pool also (passively) gets 1 facet for their communal pool which they can redistribute as they see fit.

    There is no time limits or restrictions on those. If a player leaves a house, their personal tally of facets gets added to the communal pool. 

    Players don't need to worry about over refining, and houses don't need to actively monitor for it, as they can only refine from their personal facets.
  • Thank You, @Tecton for addressing some of our concerns. 

    I do understand WHY it has to happen, It was the way it was rolled out that was more upsetting. 
    As I've been telling house members for the past few hours, we'll make things work and it will be fine. 

     

  • Consider my issues with it resolved.  I do think this might benefit from an explanation on the announce with some of the common confusion, as I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't get it.  Now, as @Kinilan suggests, I should probably go eat some green eggs and ham.
  • Lucine said:
    Consider my issues with it resolved.  I do think this might benefit from an explanation on the announce with some of the common confusion, as I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't get it.  Now, as @Kinilan suggests, I should probably go eat some green eggs and ham.

    @Lucine I already tested all of it IC, and our HHELP scroll about the MC is adjusted to reflect the changes. :)
    image
  • edited January 2014
    Tecton said:

    @Logs - We did get rid of the BRIEF log, as each individual refine/fold isn't logged any more. The regular crystal log is still there, and you'll see the bulk allocations to and from the communal pool. If there's a desire to keep track of who adds facets to the communal pool as well, we can talk about adding that back into the logs, but part of the reason for this change was to reduce the need to track that sort of thing. If you're interested in seeing that or other pieces of information on the crystal log, comment here and I'll consider it.

    Merchants have always paid for the facets people add, so seeing who adds them in brief was quite nice, instead of trudging through the lists and counting it all up, or making a script to do the same.
  • It's got it's ups and downs. Not having to worry about over-refining is pretty cool. 

    But the easiest way to explain this is:

    Let's say you spend like.. two years cultivating a lawn, or a flowerbed. Lots of watering, fertilizing, making trips to the store for soil, etc. Then one day, the government says 'We're confiscating (x) amount of land from you. Sorry.'

  • Good job on this, admins.

    There's really no cause for complaint from anyone here. This has been a long-standing problem and it's good on the admins to fix it.

    If the objective was "find a ridiculous and/or broken mechanic in achaea and make it work reasonably", then this was nothing short of a success.

    image

  • Cooper said:
    That will never, ever, ever even if Achaea goes on another 20 years.
    5 million facets is only 181 rifts full of crystals (11 crystal types, 2500 each). Less with Prospero's Vaults. I think that could be done in a reasonable amount of time.

    Still agree aside from that, though. To sell them, you'd have to flood the market with cheap crystals, possibly making them practically worthless for quite a while (which would be an even worse problem if you start hitting the new caps too quickly, and have nothing to do with the excess crystals but hoard them or continue to sell them cheaply, prolonging the problem).
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