Range Changes

Wynedere

ANNOUNCE NEWS #3976                                     (10/31/2013 at 16:44)  

From   : Tecton, the Terraformer

To     : Everyone

Subject: Ranged changes

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While evaluating our latest round of classlead reports, we started making changes to classes to promote more emphasis on melee-ranged and line-of-sight combat, rather than area-wide. This should make things more interesting overall, rather than being picked off from someone who you can't see.

Since the classleads are completed, we've gone back and made changes to the classes that were evaluated before we started on this path, so I'm pleased to announce the following tweaks.

* CHOKE and CRUSH (Kaido) require the victim to be in line-of-sight with the monk.

* CATACLYSM (Crystallism) now requires the target to be within a three room range of the vibration.

We'll be monitoring these changes alongside the others of this nature, and may make additional changes if necessary.

Penned by My hand on the 3rd of Aeguary, in the year 639 AF.

I'm all for this because I love melee. However, I also feel that since cataclysm is -much- less useful now, it should no longer require three magi. This would give magi some decent los. 

Thoughts from the real combatants?

Tecton

Wynedere said:

I'm all for this because I love melee. However, I also feel that since cataclysm is -much- less useful now, it should no longer require three magi. This would give magi some decent los. 

Thoughts from the real combatants?

Yeah, the three magi requirement is one thing I'm currently considering, that may change in the near future.

Azor

A three-room radius? Bleh. Especially if it still takes three mages. How about making it a one-mage cast (with any mages present able to use it, since only one mage at a time can have vibes in a room), and let it be LoS? With a three-room radius, cata won't even work for border skirmishes on Mhaldor Isle.

Fitz

Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their words had forked no lightning they

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on that sad height,

Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light. 

Dylan Thomas

IT'S ARC SPAM AND CHAOSRAY TIME BITCHES

Penwize

Wynedere said:

Thoughts from the real combatants?

Crush is now patently useless (requires a mind lock, fully artied it does less damage than snipe/breathstream would).  Choke now fairly bad unless combined with snipes.

Unsure how I feel about the cata change.  It was strong but shielding and being indoors defeated it, and with meteors being a short range now shielding was an ultimate defense against it.

Sidonia

Radiance 3 room range plz

Hasar

Is Cata still stopped by the vibe users being indoors/the enemy?

Anedhel

The indoor restriction should be lifted. Cata's still moderately strong in that you don't need to be able to see your target to hit 'em, and transfixation at range is always a big thing. I mean, if ranged hangedman got the hammer, I can't see how anyone reasonably expected cataclysm transfix not to get it.

Edit: Words are confusing sometimes.

Dunn

I've heard some speculating that one Mage cata is a viable route, but I disagree with that. If one artied Mage can spin a cata and sit with a grounding vibe on a cities defendable, they'll be able to kill anyone that decides to stand within three rooms of the gates (happens in a lot of cities). I'm thinking it'd end up as more of a problem if this included a removal of the indoors limitation on cata, though, so I could just be overthinking. Tldr nerf Mage damage.

Mizik

RE: Indoors Cataclysm

Uh yeah, if we cut Cataclysm Staffcast damage by like -80%. Or had it instantly dampen if one Magi leaves the area. Because screw grateaclysm.

And do psychedelic drugs while doing so.

@Tecton

There's no reason for a one man Cataclysm, since its function is still the same. Changing it to one Magi spin would be a specific targeted change to only Magi 1v1, not raiding.

* We've designed decked Magi damage to not be tankable, but left escape as an option. Adding 3 rooms to actually escape is hugely impactful.
* Retardation with adjacent Cataclysm nightmares

This was meant to limit range combat. In this it was a success.

Haldon

Don't even understand why I care anymore.

Jhui

monks are still the best in melee and best at tanking in melee...

across borders choking and telepathy is a side-buff from a decent nerf.

Monks are still in a good spot

Penwize

Jhui said:

monks are still the best in melee and best at tanking in melee...

across borders choking and telepathy is a side-buff from a decent nerf.

Monks are still in a good spot

Across borders telepathy still won't work (requires mind lock, which cares about area barrier), so that only counts for choke.  Crush has been rendered useless by these changes honestly. 

I wouldn't say monks are any better in melee than magi or another damage-heavy class, and their lack of hindrance wouldn't even put them at the best in melee.  Tankiness perhaps, though not many people went monk for its tanking abilities.

Disagree that monks are in a good spot overall.

Hayte

Mizik

Monks are the best melee in the game.

Monks are the best range in the game.

Monks are the best tanks in the game.

The fuck else do you want?

@Penwize stfu noob

Anedhel

Monks so spoiled.

Mishgul

I heard sentinel is supposed to be good if any of you monks need a change.  

Jhui

ah shame about across borders telepathy.

The reason monks are better in melee than magi is because you can hinder the magi.  Hindered enfeeble and choke are the two most powerful melee abilities.

Numb, transmute, kai heal, and vitality are probably the 4 most powerful tankiness abilities.

I feel bad that monks can't sit in a spot on the other side of a city on a guard stack and choke or crush people with no fear of retaliation, but EVERYTHING has shifted to this, so it has to fall in line.

No one likes a fight where they can't fight back.

Exelethril

Jhui said:

I feel bad that monks can't sit in a spot on the other side of a city on a guard stack and choke or crush people with no fear of retaliation, but EVERYTHING has shifted to this, so it has to fall in line.

No one likes a fight where they can't fight back.

Don't forget the icewall trigger and ranged hangedman in the past, good sir.

Tekk

@Tecton and whoever else came up with this...

Dunn

Penwize, play another class for a month and raid regularly. You will eventually see how good you/monks have it.

Makarios

It might feel like an overly large nerf, but at the end of the day keeping something like choke the way it was "because this is how its always been" is a pretty bad stance to take. Mind crush probably could use some looking at (its a tricky issue because we can't let you retain mindlocks across area boundaries without throwing a bunch of other things off). Just take consolation that it wasn't just a monk nerf, everyone is (roughly) in line now.

Siana

I'm pretty sure this makes serpents better, or at least on par with monks in ranged combat, so yay!

Mizik

Siana said:

I'm pretty sure this makes serpents better, or at least on par with monks in ranged combat, so yay!

LoS Kai Choke > LoS Snipe

Iocun

Mind crush is still a damn efficient mana drain in melee.

Mizik

Iocun said:

Mind crush is still a damn efficient mana drain in melee.

Not to mention untankable.

In Mir.

Siana

Mizik said:

Siana said:

I'm pretty sure this makes serpents better, or at least on par with monks in ranged combat, so yay!

LoS Kai Choke > LoS Snipe

But does it give afflictions? (Actual question)

Penwize

Makarios said:

It might feel like an overly large nerf, but at the end of the day keeping something like choke the way it was "because this is how its always been" is a pretty bad stance to take. Mind crush probably could use some looking at (its a tricky issue because we can't let you retain mindlocks across area boundaries without throwing a bunch of other things off). Just take consolation that it wasn't just a monk nerf, everyone is (roughly) in line now.

With the restriction of a single monk crushing due to mind lock requirements already in place, I'd have expected it to remain as it was.  In its current form I can't really find a single case where I'd want to use it over choke or shooting.

Triak

TBH I'm relieved I don't have to be monk anymore.

Dunn

@Makarios @Tecton Why not just make crush three room radius and maintain the lock requirement? That doesn't mean you'd have to add over boundary locks. If they're three rooms away and they happen to be in another area, tough nuggets, no crush. The area boundary/lock mechanics that are already hardcoded will limit crush to the local area, but you'll be able to crush from three rooms with a lock in area and in room without a lock.

Eld

Siana said:

Mizik said:

Siana said:

I'm pretty sure this makes serpents better, or at least on par with monks in ranged combat, so yay!

LoS Kai Choke > LoS Snipe

But does it give afflictions? (Actual question)

No, choke doesn't afflict, but that's not really material. Except in a few particular cases, the afflictions from sniping aren't especially important, and the main reason for using envenomed arrows is just for added damage.