Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Occultist Combat

2

Comments

  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,283 Achaean staff

    The mana cost likely shouldn't be there, no.

    The balance/eq requirement was intended. That'll be something to do in classleads if it needs changing, but I'll fix up the mana requirement now.

  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    I can understand the need for a possible limitation to the ability to use a curing skill(though there's a bunch of passive curing skills that tick while fully locked/off eq etc), but not being able to use it while off bal/eq doesn't seem like the right way to do that. It causes problems such as not really being able to use it effectively while fighting, or not being able to use it due to fluke falcon hits, etc. 

    Right now shrugging will be able to be used in most situations as long as you're not using your eq/balance, so if you're using it defensively it's still fine in most all cases. However, when you're offensively fighting, then it becomes inconvenient to use because you're always off balance/eq. Would be a lot more balanced to make vernalius prevent shrugging from being able to be used while removing the eq/balance limitation.

    The current setup doesn't really limit the defensive use of shrugging since most classes don't perma lock people off eq/balance(and for the classes that do throw people off bal/eq, it's mostly a fluke thing anyways), so changing it to vernalius preventing it would be a much easier way for affliction classes to limit the use of shrugging while giving the serpent a much more easy-access skill for general fighting/etc.

    image

    Jhui
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,945 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    what the fuck Santar, how the hell did you make it in ACC talking like this?

    @Iocun come save the day and explain that new shrugging is a beautiful beautiful thing.
    image
    SantarWessux
  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The theme of the skill might be okay, but it's a terrible skill to use at the moment with the mana drain/limitations on balance/eq. 

    image

  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,170 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Being always off bal/eq when fighting shouldn't really be a problem, that's what most systems have a balance queue for.  When you next regain balance, you can shrugging/dstab/conjure illusion all at once, since shrugging requires but does not use balance/eq (far as I know).  It's the same way for that as it is for a lot of abilities for a lot of classes.
  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    I'm already coding that into my system, yeah.

    Doesn't mean I think it's good design, though. You've got plenty of ridiculous curing skills out there like necklace of purity that can't be stopped at all, the priest/apostate healing stuff, then if you throw room-based passive curing into the equation, there's a whole slew more. I realize, of course that shrugging is slightly different than those due to the abillity to use it exactly the moment you want it, but still don't see the need for it to be limited to use on balance/eq.

    The removal of the mana/wp drain was a good change though. Being able to use it without worrying about choking on mana resources makes the skill a good deal better, and is something I complained about on day 1.


    edit: gonna stop derailing this thread now.

    image

  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,170 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Having it like that is a slight balancing factor against an instant reaction.  It means that at worst you can have ~2 seconds before you're able to shrug in normal circumstances.  That's similar in nature to alleviate, bloodboil, fool tarot, fitness, etc, though with the extra special bonus of not using balance up, putting shrugging ahead of all of those (on top of paralysis not stopping it, even better!).  Of the on-demand tree tattoo type abilities, shrugging is one of the best (priest healing doesn't count, that thing is OP).
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,020 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    What's the issue with a 250 mana cost on shrugging. Serpents don't drain shit worth of mana. Besides, you shouldn't be looping the free bail out on every balance.

    And it sure as hell shouldn't be compared to the ridiculous shit it was before.

    Should leave it the way it is.

    Exceptions are the way to go. Not rules.
    image
    DaeirDunnAradorWessux
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    Bringing up passive curing abilities of other classes as an argument to saying current shrugging is too limited seems strange. This argument implies that those passive curing abilities are good things which should stand as a positive example to other abilities.
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,801 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jhui said:
    what the fuck Santar, how the hell did you make it in ACC talking like this?

    Iocun come save the day and explain that new shrugging is a beautiful beautiful thing.
    Uh this is exactly how ACC works. You periodically (not too often) talk about how bad your class is, and suggest a variety of buffs that would make it "viable", eg. runewarden. Meanwhile you do the opposite for classes you don't like, eg. priest. Santar is doing it like a veteran.
    image
    JhuiCahinWessuxHalos
  • CarmellCarmell Eastern WashingtonMember Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Disrupt has a high willpower cost as well as using chasten and spiritlash.  There is a give that we have to do if we want to be able to use disrupt and chasten and mix it in with lash.

  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973 @ - Epic Achaean
    So... to get back on track. Are thrown weapons still a part of Occie combat, or would you say they've moved on to much more self reliant, with less need of weapons and bombs?

    gtfo this isn't priest or serpents. go make your own thread.
    MelodieCaoimhaenMizik
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Man I wish there was read-only access to the ACC forum section. I know, it would suck, because people would constantly start threads here based on what they read there, but man I would love to read through all of that and learn what my feeble mind can't derive itself.
    image
  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    edited November 2013
    @Dunn

    So, back on the main topic, how do you go about getting the mental stack? W/devil, moon/pyradius moon/Danaeus moon/nemesis?
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,225 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have a torc artie that lets me mind stupidity/humbug to stack mentals, but moon/humbug is fairly good at stacking. When I first started, I used firelord/enlighten, but the longer you wait to firelord, the more likely it is that they have cured their physical affs and it just ends up wasting the ent balance. Remember that you can humbug/madness and then humbug AGAIN before you get eq back from madness (it's like a 4s eq). This sets you up nicely to only have to humbug/enlighten post madness.


  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    @Dunn
    Any way to stick madness without hecate or kalmia weapon, or am I just gonna have to suck it up and rush to get myself a shiny dagger/credits of the moderate caliber?
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,225 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jhui unraveled Santar on accident without Hecate last night, but it's not going to happen without aeon, which I wouldn't recommend. Instill is fast enough to stack with.


  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    So yeah, definitely have to have Hecate... all right. Thank you!
  • LiancaLianca Fire and SpiceMember Posts: 428 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    You don't necessarily need a stupid fast dagger, or any weapon, or credits really beyond trans skills for that, with a sensible racial spec you can compete comfortably in the low-middling combatant range. Do look to the other Occultism skills and see what you can add in t the basic gogoafflict to prep and assist yourself, we have some great tools.
    The sweltering heat of the forge spills out across the land as the rumbling voice of Phaestus booms, "I want you to know, the Garden reaction to that one is: What?"
    The voice of Melantha, Goddess of the Seasons, echoes amid the rustle of leaves, "That's the censored version."
  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    That's what I was talking about on the credits - the creddies to get up high enough in domination.
  • LiancaLianca Fire and SpiceMember Posts: 428 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Trans Domination is now almost more useful than trans Tarot, aside from the hassles of not having supercharge (really why is that not lower in the skill tree???) Golgotha will save your necessary ents from quick demise (for the most part) and Hecate just gives you a great window once madness is stuck, to chase down the phobia fleeing/blackwinding/running so and so's.
    The sweltering heat of the forge spills out across the land as the rumbling voice of Phaestus booms, "I want you to know, the Garden reaction to that one is: What?"
    The voice of Melantha, Goddess of the Seasons, echoes amid the rustle of leaves, "That's the censored version."
  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    Hecate also has the wonderful bonus of sticking madness in the first place. I can stick 5 affs - not mentals, but affs - and have ent balance back in time to hecate, so yeah, other than Tower I'm not seeing much use for Tarot in the straightforward strategy, other than speeding things up.
  • LiancaLianca Fire and SpiceMember Posts: 428 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Moon and Devil are the really helpful ones for basic strategy, especially if you don't want to go the weapons route to start off with.
    The sweltering heat of the forge spills out across the land as the rumbling voice of Phaestus booms, "I want you to know, the Garden reaction to that one is: What?"
    The voice of Melantha, Goddess of the Seasons, echoes amid the rustle of leaves, "That's the censored version."
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,945 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    tarot opens up some burst-strategy hecates.

    Instills into cadmus, into hecate is the more momentum-y approach.

    both are useful,  unnameable into devil'd moons can be nasty if you get some lucky procs.  Hierophant can open up a lot of things, too.

    Really a lot of useful tricks out there.
    image
    Lianca
  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    Oh yeah, definitely, that much is very obvious - I just meant that it CAN be done without it, definitely. Will obviously tri-trans as soon as possible, but until then....
    Caoimhaen
  • BalkinBalkin Member Posts: 12
    Totally valid question that has come up.
    For Hecate, do Insomnia, deaf, and blind count?
    What about entangled?
  • ExelethrilExelethril EleusisMember Posts: 2,909 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Couldn't find an occultist to spar against so I shall try to fish for trigger lines here, bwahaha.. anyone have any important occultist affliction lines to watch out for and get ready to tumble on?

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
2
Sign In to Comment.