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Shaman Combat

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  • DragnarDragnar Member Posts: 11
    Any idea about Inflame's damage?
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,751 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Inflame's damage is 6x current bleeding as fire damage, I believe.

    6x or 8x, or something around that mark.
    :pleased::pleased:
    MannimarBluef
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Good luck sticking any bleeding worth inflaming on in most fights
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    Good luck sticking any bleeding worth inflaming on in most fights
    I do it quite easily, ask Militis :P
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yeah, not sure if enflame was supposed to open up a new kill strategy, or just make people who were going to die from bleeding anyways die in a much cooler way. 
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,093 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you someone to 1,000 bleeding and (curse?) inflame they take an instant 6,000 hp damage?

    Not sure how inflame works precisely.
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014

    Yes, enflame works to give a burst of damage that is 6x the amount of current bleeding. At least that is how it was all explained to me when I issued myself asking some clarifying questions when the ability was introduced.

    The addition of enflame was coupled with a change to how vodun bleed stacks when used successively. It has been my experience that the days of "bleeding someone out" are gone.

    Without drastically hindering a person's ability to clot now, or fooling them into thinking there isn't a reason to do so, it is very difficult to make them bleed 1,000 now. It can be done, but it takes some strategy and someone expecting it will be prepared to defend against it.

    Dartega
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    that sounds awesome, depending on the speed of enflame. Bring back the old Shaman/Bardiche days.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • DragnarDragnar Member Posts: 11
    We think inflame is totally non-viable?

    It at least seems like it could work well with an alchemist running bleed set-ups in groups.

    Does anyone know what the intelligence scaling on Runelore skills like Hailstorm and Lava Spout is?

    The idea of Vodun seems to be mostly a stall tactic for combat but I can see how the skills pair well with Curses.

    I admit I know nothing about combat. Just managed to trans Curses yesterday and don't have access to a regular computer (play from my tablet) for the next two months or so. I'm mostly focusing on getting Dragon and role playing till then.
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dragnar said:
    We think inflame is totally non-viable?

    It at least seems like it could work well with an alchemist running bleed set-ups in groups.

    Does anyone know what the intelligence scaling on Runelore skills like Hailstorm and Lava Spout is?

    The idea of Vodun seems to be mostly a stall tactic for combat but I can see how the skills pair well with Curses.

    I admit I know nothing about combat. Just managed to trans Curses yesterday and don't have access to a regular computer (play from my tablet) for the next two months or so. I'm mostly focusing on getting Dragon and role playing till then.
    I personally find Inflame to be viable, I have killed many people with it before. It's just a bit more tricky than say, doing a Tzantza. Although many people play Shaman differently and have their own ways to do it.
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dragnar said:
    We think inflame is totally non-viable? 

    No. It just requires strategy to pull off and is a bit more difficult when you're fighting someone who knows how to defend against it (ie. who checks for recklessness, manaleech, etc. consistently). 

    It at least seems like it could work well with an alchemist running bleed set-ups in groups.

    Possibly. To get it to work you really need to hinder their clotting ability.

    Does anyone know what the intelligence scaling on Runelore skills like Hailstorm and Lava Spout is?

    Sorry, nope. I had this somewhere but switched computers and am not sure where I stuck the file. Someone in the shaman clan like Kayeil may have it saved though.

    The idea of Vodun seems to be mostly a stall tactic for combat but I can see how the skills pair well with Curses.

    Not really. If anything, curses are the stall tactic when focusing on fashions, not vice versa, ie. curses are a great hindering mechanism for getting fashions.  Like @Achimrst said it is really about how you play the class - or having the agility to use everything in your arsenal and customizing strategy for each opponent. In other words, be open to trying to tzantza without vodun at all, to using totems (for hindering or to get locks), to using damage runes, to using voduns to get locks, to pulling something completely random out of your hat like a totem/behead (if you have the ability). Like jester, there are so many ways you can come at combat with shaman. It is one of the reasons I love the class. 

    I admit I know nothing about combat. Just managed to trans Curses yesterday and don't have access to a regular computer (play from my tablet) for the next two months or so. I'm mostly focusing on getting Dragon and role playing till then.

    Congrats on transing Curses. If you eventually want to get into combat, I recommend transing Vodun next. We're one of the lucky classes that can pull a lot of what I noted above off with only a bi-trans character. 

  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2014
    I'd be curious to see what your strategies are that aren't completely negated by someone just switching to mana sip priority and eating moss. It's not like you're really doing any viable damage sustaining damage enough to make them need health prioritized. 
    You're pretty much tasked with getting them to 0 mana before you can stack that high of a bleed, and I don't think any amount of swiftcurse sleep/focus/bleed is going to do that to most people. The people I killed with enflame would have died to the puppet bleeds regardless, so like I said, seemed more to just kill them in a cooler way. 

    I guess mayyyybe you can take advantage of them switching to mana prio to stop the bleeds, starting a few thurisaz, sticking sensitivity and trying to burst someone down with puppet throttle, but meh. 
    Of course, this is all 1v1 combat, and this being said, Shaman has some crazy sick kill potential regardless of this and is one of my favorite classes to play. 

    Screw @silas for not allowing them into Targossas, that hater.
    Bluef
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Makarios said:
    We actually intended inflame primarily to give them some kind of way to kill people situationally in groups that wasn't reliant on them pausing their curing. Cool that you're using it though.
    @Militis was pissed I killed him with it twice. Love it, also I will try using it in raids now.
    Bluef
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Achimrst said:
    Dartega said:
    Good luck sticking any bleeding worth inflaming on in most fights
    I do it quite easily, ask Militis :P

    Achimrst said:
    Makarios said:
    We actually intended inflame primarily to give them some kind of way to kill people situationally in groups that wasn't reliant on them pausing their curing. Cool that you're using it though.
    @Militis was pissed I killed him with it twice. Love it, also I will try using it in raids now.

    hoo boy someone is proud.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,839 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Why is killing Militis considered such a feat?
    Kyrra
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Aepas said:
    Achimrst said:
    Dartega said:
    Good luck sticking any bleeding worth inflaming on in most fights
    I do it quite easily, ask Militis :P

    Achimrst said:
    Makarios said:
    We actually intended inflame primarily to give them some kind of way to kill people situationally in groups that wasn't reliant on them pausing their curing. Cool that you're using it though.
    @Militis was pissed I killed him with it twice. Love it, also I will try using it in raids now.

    hoo boy someone is proud.

    Antonius said:
    Why is killing Militis considered such a feat?
    image

    I would like to see @Aepas and @Antonius kill a monk with inflame. Than I will comment on your Bullshit.
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    That's kinda my point though. There's probably 0 reason why he should die to inflame in 1v1, but until you say how you accomplish this, I don't really know. 
    Doesn't really prove it's effective, just that one person dies to it for some reason. 
    AchimrstBluef
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    That's kinda my point though. There's probably 0 reason why he should die to inflame in 1v1, but until you say how you accomplish this, I don't really know. 
    Doesn't really prove it's effective, just that one person dies to it for some reason. 
    Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it's ineffective.
    BluefWessux
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Once again, I can and have done it multiple times, but its not a viable goto kill strategy in 1v1. I highly doubt you have some mystical strategy that does this. 
    I'm merely casually asking you what it is, because I'd be more than happy to learn something new and be proven wrong. 
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    Once again, I can and have done it multiple times, but its not a viable goto kill strategy in 1v1. I highly doubt you have some mystical strategy that does this. 
    I'm merely casually asking you what it is, because I'd be more than happy to learn something new and be proven wrong. 
    definitely not a go to strategy for me either, but I found it extremely useful in this situation. There is never some magical strategy, it's just one tool I use and it definitely doesn't work on everyone. Tried it on a Sylvan once and nope it was a complete waste of time.

  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Achimrst said:
    Dragnar said:
    We think inflame is totally non-viable?

    It at least seems like it could work well with an alchemist running bleed set-ups in groups.

    Does anyone know what the intelligence scaling on Runelore skills like Hailstorm and Lava Spout is?

    The idea of Vodun seems to be mostly a stall tactic for combat but I can see how the skills pair well with Curses.

    I admit I know nothing about combat. Just managed to trans Curses yesterday and don't have access to a regular computer (play from my tablet) for the next two months or so. I'm mostly focusing on getting Dragon and role playing till then.
    I personally find Inflame to be viable, I have killed many people with it before. It's just a bit more tricky than say, doing a Tzantza. Although many people play Shaman differently and have their own ways to do it.
    I'm just trying to get you to shed some insight into this with some actual data, because I'm calling bullshit. I'm very well aware that strategies are subjective. Please prove me wrong though!
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    Achimrst said:
    Dragnar said:
    We think inflame is totally non-viable?

    It at least seems like it could work well with an alchemist running bleed set-ups in groups.

    Does anyone know what the intelligence scaling on Runelore skills like Hailstorm and Lava Spout is?

    The idea of Vodun seems to be mostly a stall tactic for combat but I can see how the skills pair well with Curses.

    I admit I know nothing about combat. Just managed to trans Curses yesterday and don't have access to a regular computer (play from my tablet) for the next two months or so. I'm mostly focusing on getting Dragon and role playing till then.
    I personally find Inflame to be viable, I have killed many people with it before. It's just a bit more tricky than say, doing a Tzantza. Although many people play Shaman differently and have their own ways to do it.
    I'm just trying to get you to shed some insight into this with some actual data, because I'm calling bullshit. I'm very well aware that strategies are subjective. Please prove me wrong though!
    I don't have to prove anything to you, it is viable if you know how to use it and I use it successfully. Typically when a Monk tries to get mana from me with their telepathy abilities and I am Vodun Bleeding them. They walk in and inflame, dead. I have used it on some other classes but it wasn't nearly as successful, I had to get creative with it and use things like slow to get enough bleeding to inflame. Just because you see no potential in it and I have successfully learned different ways to use it as a replacement for an instant kill doesn't mean it's useless. I have killed people with it, like I also said in there. "It's just a bit more tricky than say, doing a Tzantza." Which is very true it will not be as easy as just going for Tzantza but against some classes it is very effective, or so I have found while testing with it.
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So, what I'm gleaming from this conversation is that you've killed one person with it, Militis, and that's about it. 
    Yes, you can inflame kill people who are probably screwed from the vodun bleed already, I already stated this, and yes, I figured it went without saying that killing someone with inflame after slow/truelock is doable. 
    I'm not attacking your combat prowess here or anything bro, I just thought you were declaring there are some legitimate bleed strategies ala apostate or something. Pretty sure you're just doing the above sentence, which yes, works on people who can't stop vodun bleed, which isn't that scary if you know what you're doing. 
  • AdioroAdioro Member Posts: 98 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    (gleaning*)

    Dartega
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I'm hooked on the stuff
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    So, what I'm gleaming from this conversation is that you've killed one person with it, Militis, and that's about it. 
    Yes, you can inflame kill people who are probably screwed from the vodun bleed already, I already stated this, and yes, I figured it went without saying that killing someone with inflame after slow/truelock is doable. 
    I'm not attacking your combat prowess here or anything bro, I just thought you were declaring there are some legitimate bleed strategies ala apostate or something. Pretty sure you're just doing the above sentence, which yes, works on people who can't stop vodun bleed, which isn't that scary if you know what you're doing. 
    Can you just stfu and let someone have a goddamn proud moment.
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
    DartegaAchimrstAepasDaeir
  • AchimrstAchimrst CaliforniaMember Posts: 3,604 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    So, what I'm gleaming from this conversation is that you've killed one person with it, Militis, and that's about it. 
    Yes, you can inflame kill people who are probably screwed from the vodun bleed already, I already stated this, and yes, I figured it went without saying that killing someone with inflame after slow/truelock is doable. 
    I'm not attacking your combat prowess here or anything bro, I just thought you were declaring there are some legitimate bleed strategies ala apostate or something. Pretty sure you're just doing the above sentence, which yes, works on people who can't stop vodun bleed, which isn't that scary if you know what you're doing. 
    I have killed a couple people with it, in spars in the arena. Mostly to test how to use it in a combat situation.
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think @Makarios already posted here (or somewhere else?) that they introduced enflame to help give shamans more utility in raids. Or maybe I'm remembering that wrong (I swear it was posted recently by Someone). Anyway, it has the potential to be used a lot like incinerate to some extent (a big burst of damage). 
    Achimrst
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