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Blademasters

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  • IocunIocun Posts: 3,505Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2013
    Mizik said:
    The difference between dual and quad prep is like 6 slashes. 1.6s per slash. I auto cycled hamstring, so my opponents were never mounted. Easy street.
    I wasn't really talking about the difference between dual and quad prep, but between no-prep-void-para-impale or no-prep-kneestrike-impale and quad prep. Quad prep doesn't take very long, but no-prep impale(slash) spamming is so utterly annoying that when a blademaster actually goes for any kind of breaks instead that already feels so much better.

    P.S. I think I've had fights that lasted over an hour. Not sure though. I remember one ridiculously long one versus Jhui where we both were completely out of willpower for the majority of the fight, but there probably were longer ones too. Luckily, against most classes running out of willpower doesn't actually kill you, if you stay defensive enough and know how to stay alive without depending on clot/focus.
  • SidoniaSidonia Posts: 407Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited June 2013
    WP cost of clot should decrease under impaleslash, then the BM would be forced to choose between a willpower kill and a bstar, rather than just getting one when they fail at the other.
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyPosts: 4,339Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Black Crescent*
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    DaeirMizikSylvance
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaPosts: 510Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Fighting a blademaster is just fighting a count down timer. As a limb prep class myself I have less of a hard time than others, but I see no major problems with brokenstar. Yes, the willpower drain is rough because that means you have to kill them before you run out. But if you do run out, just run, the duel is over at that point anyway. I personally find it really cool that blademasters have that advantage. 

    @Nyboe your comments on blademaster combat always give me a headache, just stop. And never back talk the the All Great and Powerful @Mizik.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    KyrraMizikMishgulSylvance
  • SasiyaSasiya Posts: 133Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited June 2013
    So wait. You're quoting your own post only to be able to post a french version of Samurai Tom Cruise wielding a giant piece of bread?

    This is scary.. and glorious.
  • NyboeNyboe Posts: 83Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited June 2013
    I just tested it out in the arena with another BM. I have 16400 willpower and thats what I started when I tested it out. I have no lessons in philosophy yet. I am level 80. I have clotting.

    I lie down. I paused my system. I first had the BM do three blade twists on me. Unpause system. Pause system. Lie down again. Then I had him impale slash and do two more blade twists. Unpause system.

    I then took a look at my willpower and at the end it was in the 14000 range.. If you don't believe me you can try it out yourself.

    The only reason why someone would run out of willpower against a BM would be if they entered the arena with like 80 percent or more of their willpower used up. Or if they fought a BM for like 20 minutes and the BM managed to get like 8 double leg breaks.

    Edit: I paused the system so I wouldn't writhe when I was impaled.
    MishgulSylvanceNaisarWessuxZeonArador
  • NyboeNyboe Posts: 83Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited June 2013
     The reason why he didn't impaleslash the first time as he messed up. So I did it again but I told him only two bladetwists the second time.

    Okay this time I did the test again. Impaleslash and 3 bladetwists. I was lying down system paused when he did this. When I unpaused system will power drained from  16640 to  16204.

    Thats 400 willpower. I dont' know why the first test it drained more but thats what the numbers are showing my on screen right now.

    Edit: For some reason my system makes me stop clotting once I reached 1800 mana but I was still bleeding for 600 and that was when the impaleslash timer ran out "Your pulse strengthens as your damaged arteries clot over and your internal bleeding ceases." But some seconds later I started to clot all the bleeding down. But it still ended up being only 400 willpower drain in total.

    http://pastebin.com/EjaGk5n3

    I edited out the stat and score information as I don't want everyone to know what clan or whatever I am in but the endurance and willpower is shown.
    Post edited by Nyboe on
    MishgulEchaldDontarionSylvanceWessuxSherazad
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,027Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    From your test, you blew 2400 willpower in the only two qualifying twists.

    Keep in mind, with 2 breaks, I'd get 4 twists.

    With 3 breaks, I'd get 6 twists.

    And I can get more twists, but I'd withdraw for Broken Star, since they'd be over 1000 bleeding.

    You need to isolate the variables and just put the math on paper to get accurate results. What are the constants? The twist bleed amounts and willpower per clot. Variables? Mana pool, mana cost per clot, willpower pools.

    Assume 1000 bleeding and impale slashed target for simplicity. Each clot cures 20 bleed. We'll use you as an example. Each clot costs you 189 mana.

    1000/20 = 50 clots. 50 x 189 = 9450 total mana required to clot. That's fine.

    If clot is 12 x 4 = 48 willpower per clot. 48 x 50 = 2400 willpower just on one 40 second prep. 

    Now include one focus and two clots for every slash. Factor in player offense. Active defenses.
    image
    SylvanceShirszae
  • IocunIocun Posts: 3,505Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2013
    To be fair, many people use their willpower way too wastefully in fights. They focus all the time even if it's not needed (if you're not voidfisted, there's no reason to focus against a BM), keep way too many wp draining defences up (no way I'm going to use weaving against a blademaster), or never limit the amount of willpower they use in offence, even when they're getting low.

    Nevertheless, to think that "the only reason why someone would run out of willpower against a BM would be if they entered the arena with like 80 percent or more of their willpower used up" is just naive. If the BM knows how to survive and has a somewhat decent defence, you will run out of willpower. All you can do is to delay this point as much as possible and try to kill them before it happens (or run when it does).
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Nyboe said:
    I just tested it out in the arena with another BM. I have 16400 willpower and thats what I started when I tested it out. I have no lessons in philosophy yet. I am level 80. I have clotting.

    I lie down. I paused my system. I first had the BM do three blade twists on me. Unpause system. Pause system. Lie down again. Then I had him impale slash and do two more blade twists. Unpause system.

    I then took a look at my willpower and at the end it was in the 14000 range.. If you don't believe me you can try it out yourself.

    The only reason why someone would run out of willpower against a BM would be if they entered the arena with like 80 percent or more of their willpower used up. Or if they fought a BM for like 20 minutes and the BM managed to get like 8 double leg breaks.

    Edit: I paused the system so I wouldn't writhe when I was impaled.

    image
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
    SimolnMishgulWessuxSherazad
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,103Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nyboe said:
     The reason why he didn't impaleslash the first time as he messed up. So I did it again but I told him only two bladetwists the second time.

    Okay this time I did the test again. Impaleslash and 3 bladetwists. I was lying down system paused when he did this. When I unpaused system will power drained from  16640 to  16204.

    Thats 400 willpower. I dont' know why the first test it drained more but thats what the numbers are showing my on screen right now.

    Edit: For some reason my system makes me stop clotting once I reached 1800 mana but I was still bleeding for 600 and that was when the impaleslash timer ran out "Your pulse strengthens as your damaged arteries clot over and your internal bleeding ceases." But some seconds later I started to clot all the bleeding down. But it still ended up being only 400 willpower drain in total.

    http://pastebin.com/EjaGk5n3

    I edited out the stat and score information as I don't want everyone to know what clan or whatever I am in but the endurance and willpower is shown.
    You don't know how to test things properly, sorry. Your test is uncontrolled and inaccurate and you only account for one part of BM willpower draining while ignoring everything else, even after I pointed it out to you.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    CesarinaSylvanceSherazad
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,027Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Point being, it won't be missed - evidently, least of all by you -  and people will actually want to fight you.
    image
    Acius
  • NyboeNyboe Posts: 83Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited June 2013
    @cooper I am only testing impaleslash drain on willpower and  nothing else. I've isolated the variable I wanted to test as a lot of people wanted to tone down the willpower multiplier for impaleslash on page 1 of the thread.


    Yes I understand when you combine all this, the impaleslash, the focus, the minor clotting from slashes, the players passive will power draining skills, will end up draining a lot of will power combined but OTHER classes can do all do this to each other except the impaleslash as that is unique to blademasters and impaleslash with bladetwists SHOULD cause MOST of the will power drain, if its not then the willpower multiplier of impaleslash stands perfectly reasonable as it is in its current state
    MishgulDontarionNemutaurSylvanceJovoloAntoniusWessuxSherazadAchillesVenserAcius
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Nyboe - And you're Ashura, right?
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Haha... Hahahaha... Ha.
    SherazadCooper
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,103Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    Haha... Hahahaha... Ha.
    I like you.

    (I like this post by you. I might not actually like your other posts)

  • CryloxCrylox Posts: 1Member
    @Nyboe: Were you that BM I fought like 7 times, and said breaking legs + using enfeeble/BBT was a cheap tactic..? Yes... Yes you are...

    Then proceeded to say that you could abuse your class skills as well, ala pommelstrike+strike chin spam... And then still lost...

    Why are you even talking?

    (PS. I sure would like you to show me a Sylvan or Magi running someone out of willpower before they, themselves run out of willpower.)

    ...
    SylvanceHaldonWessux
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,027Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Be cool
    image
    DartegaEldJhui
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPosts: 5,305Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Say it aint so

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Crylox said:
    @Nyboe: Were you that BM I fought like 7 times, and said breaking legs + using enfeeble/BBT was a cheap tactic..? Yes... Yes you are...

    Then proceeded to say that you could abuse your class skills as well, ala pommelstrike+strike chin spam... And then still lost...

    Why are you even talking?

    (PS. I sure would like you to show me a Sylvan or Magi running someone out of willpower before they, themselves run out of willpower.)

    ...
    Actually LOLd
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • SeftinSeftin Posts: 923Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I think the real issue here is Mizik. He breaks classes . All those in favour of nerfing Mizik say Black Croissant.


    KyrraWessuxSylvanceEchald
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaPosts: 510Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    How dare you speak out about your lord and master. You shall be flogged, burned, tortured, tried for treason, and god willing flogged some more. And may the gods show mercy on your soul.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • SynbiosSynbios Posts: 4,438Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Wessux: He's the lord and master? Well, I didn't vote for him. I'm not even a citizen of this fiefdom. Did they just use my name as a ghost voter again? Screw this, I'm out of this kingdom. 

    Wessux
  • SeftinSeftin Posts: 923Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I think the biggest issue with blademaster is the simplicity and ease required to actually pull off a kill. There isn't really another class that is (almost) guaranteed a kill with such a quick and simple setup. With a level 3 band i could double leg break, impaleslash and bladetwist x3 in the time it took to cure and stand and when unbanded it wasnt hard to setup a quad break for another easy win and stacking pommel for an impaleslash beforehand made it significantly easier. The problem with balancing this is their relative lack of any other killing technique. You can say yes they have deathsrtike but thats like arguing that cleave shouldbe the primary finisher for knights. The class is built around a single tactic (bleed to insta) which is almost guaranteed, with a few other options (deathstrike or damage) to finish which have relatively little chance to succeed. The problem is changing this would require either a complete rethink to the classes finisher or would nerf the class to being unable to kill.
    MishgulJhuiSylvance
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPosts: 5,305Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You silly

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Jhui
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