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Switching from Serpent to Blademaster

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  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,200Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Simoln: What Sena said, basically. It's cheaper if he buys it as a Serpent until he changes class, at which point you have to pay the remainder of the credits to get SHOOT or trade it in.
  • IocunIocun Posts: 3,505Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    Regarding killing people with striking alone: Sure, it's possible, but that's not really relevant. I've killed people with weaponry alone, but that still doesn't make it a viable tactic against competent opponents.

    Striking alone won't kill a competent fighter.
    Simoln
  • AgravainAgravain Posts: 114Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    I'm glad you agree. Although I would still replace competent with someone-with-a-modern-system
  • SantarSantar Posts: 2,382Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Killing someone with striking is probably about as likely as me biting someone with voyria, walking off, and getting a kill. Well, the voyria bite is probably still more likely.

    image

    AgravainAntidasWessux
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Regarding people being dumb about what I said where Shindo/striking concerned:

    Did you miss the part where I said HR3s? Most don't have focus. Also, the bigger point was that saying "Blademasters don't have offensive tactics besides limb-breaks, impale, blade-twist and broken star." is flat out ignorant. Learn how to use striking and shindo please. They are not useless.

    And what is this, "Blademasters have no utility."

    I wonder if some of the people posting even play.

    edit: standard svo can be beaten by shindo/striking alone.
  • NaisarNaisar Posts: 255Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I've gotten the odd kill or two with nothing more than shindo fists and pommel/striking, but it's always been entirely stupid and completely preventable.  If you're counting deathstrike I can add a few more, but again the deaths were the sort that left me giggling afterwards because the victims were so willfully blind.  Striking does just fine as an auxiliary skillset; let's leave it that way.

    If you have good latency you can abuse a quirk of how balance is handled to do some clever things with striking.
    YueSimolnHhaos
  • AgravainAgravain Posts: 114Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Yes, if you use striking in conjuction with twoarts.

    Also @Yue, you said HR3+. I guessed that meant people that weren't total novices. If your point is that total novices can be beaten with the use of striking and voidfist with no defensive effort whatsoever then yeah, okay... I guess

    Agree on other points, though. As a whole, Blademaster definitely is not limited in offensive capability.
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Can you beat me in a fight?
  • AgravainAgravain Posts: 114Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Yes

    But not irl
    YueWessuxSherazad
  • NyboeNyboe Posts: 83Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    No to the people who keep saying using striking and shindo only for kills is viable. Just no.

    @Iocun Also phoenix is awful because it strips your defenses as wells so if any blademaster ever uses it, their basically dead anyways as they have to put up all their defenses again in middle of battle. Phoneix also requires some decent amount of shin, and how quickly shin depletes over time makes it pretty much useless.
    AgravainSimolnHhaosWessuxSherazad
  • IocunIocun Posts: 3,505Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    Nyboe said:
    No to the people who keep saying using striking and shindo only for kills is viable. Just no.

    @Iocun Also phoenix is awful because it strips your defenses as wells so if any blademaster ever uses it, their basically dead anyways as they have to put up all their defenses again in middle of battle. Phoneix also requires some decent amount of shin, and how quickly shin depletes over time makes it pretty much useless.
    Well, you generally don't use phoenix "in the middle of a battle", but just before what might otherwise be the end of the battle. It can be a way of saving you from an otherwise unavoidable death. If you choose to continue fighting after it and get some vital defences up again, or whether you choose to retreat entirely is up to you. Both is possible, depending on the situation and whom you are facing. Sometimes fleeing may be wiser, but that still means you got to live.

    Phoenix basically means I have to additionally prone a blademaster after locking them, which adds another dstab to the chain of needed dstabs, which is a very significant difference. Quite a few of my truelock attempts against blademasters have been foiled by phoenix.
    MizikZeon
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Dorn beat Svo (against a blademaster lacking focus) with Striking and Void. It can be done.

    However, that's a flaw in Svo because it doesn't make use of alleviate. If a blademaster manually alleviates (or a magi bloodboils, etc.) it can be prevented.

    Doesn't that hint at offensive potential greater than impale/blade-twist?

    edit: off-topic, but I don't know whether or not Svo will automatically use bloodboil.
  • AgravainAgravain Posts: 114Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    No, it honestly does not. Not being contrarian for the sake of it here. 

    Something that is easily preventable > Something that is not easily preventable. 

    That it worked on a novice using a stock Svo who used zero defensive maneuvers isn't a good estimate of how effective something is. Using striking alone really isn't viable. In a similar way that randomly starting deathsight isn't.
  • IocunIocun Posts: 3,505Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well, "beating svo" alone while not defending in any way manually isn't an accurate test of power/viability. You can just judge/eliminate/cleave/etc. someone and most curing systems won't keep them safe if they don't do anything to prevent it.
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    ya that makes it seem like the class was poorly designed

    anyone that can be beaten by striking probably can't tank the raw bleed/limb damage from two arts

    anyone who can tank the raw bleed/limb damage can't be beaten by striking
  • AgravainAgravain Posts: 114Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    You still could. If it's out of the arena, many people will be susceptible to rift or pipe locks against a blademaster as it's highly unsuspected. On top of that, you have your mana locks which are also viable considering how likely it is a blademaster's opponent is going to be below 250 mana during the breaks, and they can switch into a manalock off a restoration apply pretty quickly. The amount of people that can avoid dying to a well set-up brokenstar attempt is a very small minority, still. The wp drain route is a largely viable one too, it's kind of why I hate the idea of the class from a defensive standpoint, if someone like Carmain went bm.

    You just have to get in the habit of using voidfist in a situation where they can't run away from you and turtle up.
    Yue
  • EldEld Posts: 3,946Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nyboe said:
    No to the people who keep saying using striking and shindo only for kills is viable. Just no.

    @Iocun Also phoenix is awful because it strips your defenses as wells so if any blademaster ever uses it, their basically dead anyways as they have to put up all their defenses again in middle of battle. Phoneix also requires some decent amount of shin, and how quickly shin depletes over time makes it pretty much useless.
    Phoenix does not strip defenses. It cures all afflictions that are curable by a tree tattoo. It used to strip blindness, deafness and insomnia, but only those. In return, it also reset limb damage and tempered humours. So overall, yes, it's less useful than it was before that nerf (obviously), but still very useful.
  • JacenJacen Posts: 2,245Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can confirm that Dorn did beat svo using only striking, locking the opponent long enough for deathstrike to go through. That's no Two Arts whatsoever. Dude wasn't a novice, but he was low tier. Can't remember if he was monk or runie at that point.
    image
  • NyboeNyboe Posts: 83Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited May 2013
    Yue said:
    Regarding people being dumb about what I said where Shindo/striking concerned:

    Did you miss the part where I said HR3s? Most don't have focus. Also, the bigger point was that saying "Blademasters don't have offensive tactics besides limb-breaks, impale, blade-twist and broken star." is flat out ignorant. Learn how to use striking and shindo please. They are not useless.

    And what is this, "Blademasters have no utility."

    I wonder if some of the people posting even play.

    edit: standard svo can be beaten by shindo/striking alone.

     Their is actually quite a few house rank 3 in my house that have focus.


    Trevize
  • AgravainAgravain Posts: 114Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Agravain said:
    That it worked on a novice using a stock Svo who used zero defensive maneuvers isn't a good estimate of how effective something is. Using striking alone really isn't viable. In a similar way that randomly starting deathstrike isn't.

    Sherazad
  • JacenJacen Posts: 2,245Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Chill bro, chill. I was just confirming the fact, as I had seen the log, and I know the opponent was an svo user. Fact is, pulling off a temporary lock like that using such a slow ability against a very up to date curing system -is- a feat. Does that mean its viable even at low tier combat? No, definitely not. Its just a case of a human strategy beating a computer program, which, at least to me, is always interesting to look at and analyze.

    I, in my combat ignorance, would also draw the conclusion that there does exist affliction potential that we've not seen with blademasters, but as you mentioned earlier, their primary killing tactic is so effective they hardly need alternatives.
    image
    YueHhaos
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sidonia said:
    I once killed Nyudas with an unprepped heartseed. Heartseed is literally all I did, no other attacks. That doesn't make that a viable tactic. Anybody who is saying that something being accomplished once against a clueless person makes it a possible combat strategy for real fights can kindly stop posting in the combat section.
    no one said that
  • SidoniaSidonia Posts: 407Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Yue said:
    Learn how to use striking and shindo please. They are not useless.
    edit: standard svo can be beaten by shindo/striking alone.

    Yue said:
    I'm pretty sure some Ashuran Blademaster was requiring and testing HR3+'s on their ability to combat using only Striking. Totally viable. I have seen BMs finish fights with nothing but Striking/Shindo.


    Yue said:
    Dorn beat Svo (against a blademaster lacking focus) with Striking and Void. It can be done.

    Doesn't that hint at offensive potential greater than impale/blade-twist?

    Certainly sounds like that's what you're implying, if not outright saying.
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    #1- Shindo and Striking are not usless [correct]
    #2- The stock Svo curing system can be defeated by striking/shindo alone [correct]
    #3- A combatant in the Ashura was requiring younger members to spar using only striking and shindo. That is a viable way to learn BM combat. [correct]
    #4- Dorn did beat someone (who wasn't completely clueless) using Striking and Void. [correct]

    Nope, I'm sorry, but no where in any of that did I say or imply that something being accomplished once against a clueless person makes it a possible combat strategy for real fights. What I am actually saying is that if you think Blademaster combat tactics are strictly limited to limb-breaks, impales/twists, and bleed damage, you are wrong.
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,200Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Yue: The problem seems to be your inability to communicate your point adequately. If you want people to take you seriously, and not understandably misinterpret what you're saying, use your words and make it crystal clear.
  • SidoniaSidonia Posts: 407Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited May 2013
    edit: nevermind. Not worth restating the same stuff over and over
  • YueYue Posts: 290Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    maybe.. in context though (if you read the posts that came earlier in the thread), it seems pretty obvious what I responding to and what my intent (or the implications) were (Nyboe's post)

    maybe I'm wrong though.. I'll try to be more concise in the future
  • HhaosHhaos Cortland, OhioPosts: 301Member
    Just to clarify using icefist, voidfist, and a few skills in striking yes you actually can lock someone, is it really viable? No, is it badassed when a friend goes hey watch this and runs someone out of bloodroot then sticks a lock? Definitely. When it is done to you after they left your city, joined mark, then challenge you to a fuel, though, I will confess, you don't feel very smart at all.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,264Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have a question - is a l1 band actually worth buying? I can afford either a l1 band or a l1 bow, and I am torn as to which one I should get.
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